A difference with Deoband. Can Allah (swt) lie?

 

The Truth is from your Lord.’ Then whosoever wills, let him believe, and whosoever wills, let him disbelieve.” (Qur’an 18:29)

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

I would not be truthful if I did not tell the reader that I was very disheartened to learn that this is a position held among those who hail from the Deobandi movement. 

To see them fall short on this particular point of theology is hurtful.

 

This is an important point of theological difference as it has the ability to undermine our confidence about some of the most basic and fundamental aspects of our faith, such as:

How can we trust anything from Allah (swt)

The truth about Allah (swt), his oneness.

The truth about Rasul Allah (saw) being a Messenger of Allah (swt).  That he is the last and final messenger.

The truth about the Qur’an is that it is a revelation from Allah (swt), the last and final message.

Issues of certainty and morality all of these things become issues of doubt and speculation due to the theological disposition of the scholars of Deoband.

I know these words may be quite strong and that is because I have never in my life come across a belief that is certainly so problematic for Muslims theologically that it is challenging to understand how anyone could entertain it, to begin with.

 

The theological musings of Darul Uloom Deoband have concerning Allah (swt) have to be among the most dangerous of theological speculations that have come from speculative theology.

 

If I am to speak using emotive I would say that it is perhaps the absolutely most monstrous attributions to Allah (swt)! Not even the Christians ascribe lying to Allah (swt)! 

In this website/blog I have constantly advocated for unity and cooperation among Muslims.   However, as with all things, there has to be a limit to this. Out of all possible points of contention between us as Muslims, there is probably nothing that would gain my ire more than the theological speculation of this position. This is my red line! 

 

 

This of course is not speaking to the laity and the regular adherents of the Deobandi school of thought, the common man. To those valiant brothers in the Tabligh Jamaat that go out in the path of Allah (swt) and call people back to the deen of Allah (swt). They are for the most part ignorant of this position and so to them they are my brothers and sisters and I will assist them, lower the wing of humility and do my best to be a brother to them in all respects within my means and capabilities granted by Allah (swt).

That being said I absolutely and utterly abhor the theological position that the Deobandi scholars have.

Namely that Allah (swt) can lie. (May my Rabb forgive us and bring us back t our senses.)

https://islamqa.org/hanafi/daruliftaa-birmingham/87742

Notice in the above article they say:

Falling into the topic which you have mentioned in your question, is extremely dangerous for the Iman of a believer

My response: Yes, it should cause anyone who has an ounce of love for Allah (swt) and understanding of sound doctrine to flee as far away from this speculation as they can!

The ulama of Deoband have explained this issue to the best of their knowledge according to the Quran and Sunnah. Therefore we need to look at this from an academic perspective rather than an emotional one.”

My response: They have no basis in either the Qur’an or the Sunnah for this speculation.    The emotion that I may express in this article is because of my ‘Izza for Allah (swt) and for Al-Islam. I would hope the reader would pardon me.

The article in the link above after affirming that Allah doesn’t lie turn around and affirm the following possibility:

“Thereafter they explained that Allah has the power to do whatever he wants. SO IF HE WANTED TO LIE, NOBODY CAN STOP HIM. No one can take that power away from him. There is a difference between “Allah does lie” and “ALLAH CAN LIE.”

Or the monstrous assertion that it is possible for Allah (swt) to create another like him!

Watch the following video:

 

@ 2:11 He says, “Let no man go away today and say Shaykh Mumtaz was saying Allah CAN lie, No!”

However, he turns around @ 1:38 and says, “But the OPTION Is there for Allah (swt), because he is Haqq he will never take that OPTION.”

My comment: So he is saying that he CAN and worse he says that Allah (swt) could create another Allah (swt) but chooses not to! Yikes! (Oh Allah (swt) Rabb of Grace and Abundant Mercy, please forgive us and forgive our brothers and guide them to a course that is more just than this!) Amin!

The following verse of the Qur’an that absolutely grinds to powder and scatters into the four corners of the known existence such absurd theological speculation!

There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the Hearing, the Seeing.” (Qur’an 42:11)

So what is Shaykh Mumtaz have in mind should Allah (swt) wish to create another Allah (swt)?  Some type of Binitarian belief? Or if can create another like himself what’s the limit three? Some type of Trinitarian belief?

 

It is my sincere hope that those from Deoband will refrain from this type of theological speculation. I hope that they recant from this position in public and do sincere repentance to Allah (swt).  Death waits for no one. 

 

By Allah (swt) my heart has never felt more heavy and filled with sadness than to know that these people hold these positions!

It really does go to show you that Allah (swt) spoke the Haqq (unlike what scholars muse) when He said:

“Is not Allah sufficient for His Servant? And yet, they threaten you with those they worship other than Him. And whoever Allah allows to stray-for him there is no guide. And whoever Allah guides-no one can misguide. Is not Allah Exalted in Might and Owner of Retribution?” (Qur’an 39:36-37)

 

First of all, lying is never a praiseworthy trait or quality.

“They think to deceive Allah and those who believe, but they deceive not except themselves and perceive it not.” (Qur’an 2:9)

“In their hearts is a disease, so Allah has increased their disease, and for them is a painful punishment because they habitually used to lie.” (Quran 2:10)

“So He penalized them with hypocrisy in their hearts until the Day they will meet Him – because they failed Allah in what they promised Him and because they habitually used to lie.” (Qur’an 9:77)

 

“And who is more unjust than one who invents a lie about Allah or says, ‘It has been inspired to me,’ while nothing has been inspired to him, and one who says, ‘I will reveal something like what Allah revealed.’ And if you could but see when the wrongdoers are in the overwhelming pangs of death while the angels extend their hands, saying, ‘Discharge your souls! Today you will be awarded the punishment of [extreme] humiliation for what you used to say against Allah other than the truth and that you were, toward His verses, being arrogant.’” (Qur’an 6:93)

Humans may need to lie or deceive due to some need, want, desire, or fear from danger. None of this is applicable to Allah (swt).

 

I sincerely implore the scholars of Deoband – to read these verses and immediately fall into sujud begging the Almighty Allah (swt) for forgiveness!

Dear brothers, this theological position is unbecoming of people who have produced some of the best scholars and students of knowledge in other fields. However, this belief of the Deobandi’s is pure kufr. Anyone who believes that Allah (swt) CAN lie has committed kufr. I would urge them to understand the other futility and evilness of their theological speculation and to make repentance to Allah (swt) and renew their shahadah.

 

Is this verse not befitting of them?

Who is more unjust than one who events a lie about Allah (swt).     One who says ‘it has been inspired by me’.” (Qur’an 6:93)

So these human beings were musing about Allah (swt) and suddenly there were some dark whispering to the subconscious mind that found fertile ground within their minds and souls to plant the most insidious theological speculation.

Surely Allah (swt) is our salvation! May Allah (swt) protect us from the evil insinuations of the one who whispers.

Allah (swt) says:

“And they have thereof no knowledge. They follow not except assumption, and indeed, assumption avails not against the truth at all.” (Qur’an 53:28)

“And a believing man from the family of Pharaoh who concealed his faith said, ‘Do you kill a man merely because he says, “My Lord is Allah” while he has brought you clear proofs from your Lord? And if he should be lying, then upon him is the consequence of his lie; but if he should be truthful, there will strike you some of what he promises you. Indeed, Allah does not guide one who is a transgressor and a liar.’ ” (Qur’an 40:28)

“But if they intend to deceive you – then sufficient for you is Allah. It is He who supported you with His help and with the believers. “(Qur’an  8:62)

“But We have certainly tried those before them, and Allah will surely make evident those who are truthful, and He will surely make evident the liars.”(Qur’an 29:3)

“Only they forge the lie who do not believe in Allah’s communications, and these are the liars.” (Qur’an 16:105)

“And who is more unjust than he who invents a lie about Allah? Those will be presented before their Lord, and the witnesses will say, “These are the ones who lied against their Lord.” Unquestionably, the curse of Allah is upon the wrongdoers.” (Quran 11:18)

They have no measure to know rather or not they are deceived.  They can only trust that they are not being deceived but they have no certainty.   This destroys the very foundation of the religion of truth, the science of hadith, and everything else along with it. The big question for anyone who holds the position that Allah (swt) CAN lie is this: 

If you believe that Allah (swt) CAN lie on what objective basis can you determine anything from Allah (swt) to be true?  I have recently asked one of them this question 7 times and each time he evaded it.

They have certainly erred in their theological speculation about the divine by having absolutely no shame and having been filled with haughtiness to have the audacity to attribute to Allah (swt) the capacity and capability to lie!

 

May Allah (swt) protect our minds, our hearts from the whispers of devils, and from the approach of the hellfire and from theological speculation that brings us to the very depths of darkness where there is no light therein.

Their shameful musings about Allah (swt) opened the doors of sophistry which in turn would call into question the probity of the sources of religious knowledge altogether.

 

In reality, this theological speculation is an absolute feast for atheists and Christians!

Deobandis have effectively stripped every argument Muslims have against atheists, Christians, or anyone else.  Why should an agnostic trade in his/her uncertainty for the uncertainty of Muslims? 

They have also put themselves in a precarious situation. It would be very difficult for any other Muslim to take seriously or even discuss any matter or point of jurisprudence, theology, etc with a representative of Deoband because there is nothing to be discussed. They can’t even say with all sincerity that they are upon the Haqq.

 

These people the Deobandi believe that it is possible for Allah (swt) to both lie and to be truthful! Because if Allah (swt) is Haqq and Allah (swt) does not change then why the theological speculation in regards to this?

To say that Allah (swt) has the potential to be both liar and truth sayer not only imputes lies to Allah azzawajala but it would entail a logical contradiction.

This reminds one of the atheists.

The Atheist who poses the following paradoxical question.

If Allah is Infinite and Unlimited in Power can He create a rock he cannot lift?

Which is a non-question? It is like asking if Allah (swt) can make a squared circle. It is a no-thing.

Such a rock can’t exist not because Allah (swt) is not All-Powerful but because He is!

Allah (swt) has Unlimited, Infinite Powers. This theoretical rock would also have to have MORE than infinite and unlimited powers so that Allah (swt) could not move it.
There’s no such thing as beyond infinite and unlimited so the question is flawed.

Infinity +1.  There is no such thing, there is simply infinity.

I have answered that in detail here: https://primaquran.com/2020/07/16/answering-the-atheist-and-paradoxical-questions/

Allah (swt) cannot act contrary to his being. Allah acts consistently within his own essence, his own being. 

 

The reason people fall into this trap is because of very poor training in theology and/or philosophy. They do not have a very solid foundation concerning the divine being. After all don’t they accept power as a basis for Allah (swt) being God? That is the whole point there are certain qualities that make Allah, God.

Allah cannot for example Not-Be Allah. Allah (swt) cannot be a sinner or be unholy. Allah (swt) cannot commit shirk.

Allah (swt) cannot be contained by space/time. All these things are inherent to the divine logic contained with Allah (swt).

Based on logic there are things that can not exist if another thing exists.

As Allah (swt) is Infinite and Unlimited in Power,  a thing he can not do cannot exist because it violates the very principle of being Infinite and Unlimited in Power. 

 

“He knows what is before them and what will be after them, but they do not encompass in knowledge. And all faces will be humbled before the Ever-Living, The Self Existentant. And he will have failed who carries injustice.” (Qur’an 20:110-111)

Allah (swt) is described as the Ever-Living so it is IMPOSSIBLE for Allah (swt) to die.  Allah (swt can’t will himself to die because it goes against what is intrinsic to the divine logic.  

 

Their ridiculous claim is that you deny the power of Allah (swt).  So ask them this very simple question that will crush their falsehood. 

If Allah (swt) can do anything Can Allah (swt) create a reality where he can’t do everything? 

If the answer is no: They just admitted that Allah (swt) can’t do everything. 

If they say yes, then it means they admit the possibility of a reality where Allah (swt) is not able to do all things.

Another point that crushes their speculation is the following:

The difference between us and those who hold the view that Allah (swt) CAN lie when it comes to the power of Allah (swt) is this. They believe Allah (swt) is All-Powerful based upon speculation.  Whereas the believers we believe Allah (swt) is All-Powerful based upon certainty.

“To Allah is your return, and He has power over all things.'” (Qur’an 11:4)

The basis for which those who say that Allah (swt) CAN lie is this verse. However, this verse is dependent upon Allah (swt) being Haqq and only Haqq.  The Deobandis have no objective basis on which to rest their argument. Because if both Truth and Lies can come from our Lord on what objective basis do they know that the verse in Qur’an 11:4 is true to begin with?   Whereas the believers we believe that Allah (swt) is Al Haqq and thus we have certainty in what Allah (swt) reveals to us. It is not POSSIBLE for Allah (swt) to lie to us.

 

So coming to the doctrine of the Deobandis let us see what Allah (swt) says about Truth.

 

The Truth is from your Lord.’ Then whosoever wills, let him believe, and whosoever wills, let him disbelieve.” (Qur’an 18:29)

Allah (swt) clearly says that Truth is from Him.  Otherwise the phrase -“sadaqallahul azeem” -The Truth from Allah the Almighty, it would lose all meaning.

As truth is from Allah (swt) it is not even a POSSIBILITY for non-truth to come from Allah (swt).

Allah (swt) says:

“That is because Allah He is the Truth (Al Haqq) -the Only True God of all that exists, Who has no partners or rival, the ultimate reality, and what they (those who associate) invoke besides Him, it is Batil (falsehood) And verily, Allah He is the Highest, The Most Great.” (Qur’an 22:62)

Truth has come and falsehood has vanished. Surely, falsehood is ever bound to vanish.” (Qur’an 17:81)

No! We hurl the Truth against Falsehood, and it crushes it. Behold, falsehood does perish! Woe to you for the false things you ascribe.” (Qur’an 21:18)

 

Oh, Allah (swt) please guide these people from Deoband back to Islam. Guide them and us. How can they attribute to Allah (swt) a possible attribute that can vanish or be overcome by other attributes?

 

Subhan’Allah! What more evidence do the Deobandi human beings need?

 

May Allah (swt) bring us from darkness into light and may Allah (swt) cause the Muslims to be on guard against this type of theological speculation.

Allah (swt) says that He is Al Haqq. Allah (swt) says that is The Truth.  Allah (swt) clearly contrasts himself with batil (falsehood).    Allah (swt) cannot contain both batil and haqq and have as part of his being. Both can never be attributed to Allah (swt)

Allah (swt) says:

“Verily, it is not the eyes that grow blind, but it is the hearts which are in the breast that grow blind.” (Qur’an 22:46)

Allah (swt) says:

“And do not mix the truth with falsehood or conceal the truth while you know it.” (Qur’an 2:42)

Mixing truth with falsehood is something that sinful man does. Are we going to really attribute the ability to mix truth with falsehood to the one who shaped and formed us in the womb, who provides for our every need, who is the very Lord of the Throne?!!

And yet again we have:

“And to Allah belong the best names, so invoke Him by them. And leave [the company of] those who practice deviation concerning His names. They will be recompensed for what they have been doing.” (Qur’an 7:180)

How could they even conceive as a possibility that one of the best attributes of Allah (swt) could be “The Untruthful” ?!?

This is what Allah (swt) says about those who believe that Allah (swt) has the potentiality of having sons.

“Whereat the heavens might well-nigh be rent into fragments, and the earth be split asunder, and the mountains fall down in ruins!” (Qur’an 19:90)

This is for attributing to Allah (swt) the mere potentiality of having sons can you imagine what Allah (swt) has in store for those who would attribute the mere possibility and potentiality of being “The Lord of Untruthfulness“? May Allah (swt) forgive them and us. May Allah (swt) guide them and us.

 

Deoband certainly needs to reconsider this. There is nothing to lose and everything to gain by simply stating that this is no longer a theological position that they hold to. Their scholars believe that Allah (swt) CAN lie.

They give arguments and ammunition that will unfortunately tickle the imagination of the enemies of the faith.

As shown in the video above even one of their learned people believes that Allah (swt) CAN create another Allah (swt) !!

“Therefore be patient; surely the promise of Allah is true and let not those who have no certainty hold you in light estimation. (Qur’an 30:60)

 

Dear readers, fellow Muslim brothers and sisters reading this.  I strongly advocate for unity and cooperation among all Muslims. I am very strongly against this theological position from Deoband. This belief of theirs is Kufr. In terms of this belief being Kufr I am in agreement with Shaykh Salek Bin Siddina Al Maliki.

 

 My only hope is that they would recant from this vile doctrine and renew their shahadah. I would implore, urge, beg them to reconsider it. If not for the good of this Muslim ummah for the safety and passage of their own well being into the next life. To refrain from stating with the tongue theological speculation that can not bring any good.

“And say: …So, after the truth, what else can there be, save error?” (Qur’an 10:32)

18 Comments

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18 responses to “A difference with Deoband. Can Allah (swt) lie?

  1. Ah, you’ve discovered Molvi “Option-is-der.” Congrats 😂

  2. Ismail

    It’s a lie against the Darul Uloom Deoband to say that Darul Uloom Deoband believes that Allah can speak lies.

    What is your proof that Darul Uloom Deoband believes that Allah can speak lies.

    We await your proof!

    Dont shy away.

    Darul Ifta Birmingham and Shiekh Mumtazul Haq are not representatives of Darul Uloom Deoband. What they say, may not be attributed to Darul Uloom Deoband.

    Get your facts straight before accusing Darul Uloom Deoband.

    • First, I’ll do my best to be shy as having shyness and having shame are from the fitra and from Islam.

      Only Shaitan calls to us not to be shy.

      This monstrous doctrine wherever and whoever upholds it was refuted.

      You say they don’t represent you or your creed….”Ismail”

      Then how about you give us the links websites, online videos etc about your people repudiating the idea.

      Furthermore primaquran@gmail.com
      Always welcome to contact me directly.

      • Ismail

        I HAVE ASKED A QUESTION CLEARLY:

        What is your proof that Darul Uloom Deoband believes that Allah can speak lies.

        You have spoken of Darul Uloom Deoband. we are not speaking of whoever and whatever. we are speaking of Darul Uloom Deoband!

        Give me the proof that Darul Uloom Deoband believes in such a notorious doctrine!

        That is what I am asking. You made a claim about Darul Uloom Deoband. so substantiate your claim with proofs.

        For example, you said: “I would strongly urge you to abandon the Darul Uloom Deoband and disassociate with them until they publicly recant from their theological speculation.”

        You first give proof that DARUL ULOOM DEOBAND is of that view. Then we can talk of repudiating the slander.

        “Bring forth your proof if indeed you are truthful.”

      • Bismillah ir rahman ir raheem, Al hamduilllah I’m thankful you have refrained from calling me away from shyness.

        I’m also thankful that your heart and soul is as disturbed by such a doctrine calling it “notorious”. Mash’Allah! It is not only notorious it is evil.

        It is a doctrine that only those who gave in to the whispers of devils would be open to attributing to Allah (swt).

        Now because I am dealing with people who say that it is possible for Allah (swt) to lie, I have to wonder about the adherents of such a doctrine.

        If they believe it is possible for Allah (swt) may they also see lying as modus oprehendi for themselves?

        So I need you you to understand this.

        When I say DARUL ULOOM DEOBAND I am not talking about the brick and mortar. I am not talking about the concrete, wood , chairs, tables. I am not talking about the building or even the location itself. I am not talking about inanimate objects that can neither speak or understand anything.

        I am wanting to make that clear as broad daylight so you are not trying to waste everyone’s time with some semantics.

        When I say “DARUL ULOOOM DEOBAND”. I am speaking about either past or present teachers, scholars, teachers, imams, daiees who have come from that school, are affiliated with that school, and have strong association with that school. I am speaking about websites, fatwas issued on behalf of those whom that DARUL ULOOM DEOBAND has NEVER repudiated or distanced themselves from.

        So I want to make sure that is clear as day light for you.

        I also want to make sure that when your grasp of the English language is such that you know that I understand the difference between:

        “Allah does lie” and “Allah CAN lie” -both of which we seem to agree upon as being a “notorious doctrine” and it is an evil doctrine that holy men, Allah fearing men, lovers of the Blessed Messenger (saw) would not dare to espouse with even a shred of decency.

        Is my definition and understanding of what ‘Darul Uloom Deoband’ is clear to you?

      • Bismillah ir rahman ir raheem, Praise be to Allah (swt), The Ever Truthful, The one who does not lie, nor is capable of lying.

        May Allah (swt) safeguard protect and purify the faith of the believers. May Allah (swt) expose the lies and the falsehood of any claimant who says that Allah (swt) CAN lie or that it is POSSIBLE for Allah (swt) to lie.

        Now I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and I want to think that you are not one (of many people) who come to this blog to troll others.

        So before we can proceed on this conversation I need you to be very honest about the following questions.

        Do you or do you not consider Rashid Ahmad Gangohi a deobandi scholar?

        Do you or do you not consider Rashid Ahmad Gangohi affiliated with Dar Uloom Deoband?

        Do you now consider Mahmud al-Hasan a deobandi scholar?

        Did not Mahmud Al-Hasan graduate from Darul Uloom Deoband?

        In a previous response to you I have been very clear on who and what I consider ‘Darul Uloom Deoband’ to be.

        So now before we can go any further at all. We need to know where you stand.

        Do you or do you not consider Rashid Ahmad Gangohi a deobandi scholar?

        Do you or do you not consider Rashid Ahmad Gangohi affiliated with Dar Uloom Deoband?

        Do you now consider Mahmud al-Hasan a deobandi scholar?

        Did not Mahmud Al-Hasan graduate from Darul Uloom Deoband?

        You know that my article is NOT aimed at people who say Allah (swt) DOES lie or that Allah (swt) DID lie. (authubilla min dhalik).

        My article is aimed at the very tongue twisting, slippery nature of those people who say the following:

        It is POSSIBLE for Allah (swt) to lie.
        Allah (swt) CAN DO ANYTHING.
        Allah (swt) CAN lie.

        My article is aimed at people who say, “Our scholars say who ever says Allah lied is a Kafir. HOWEVER”

        My article is aimed at the AHL HOWEVER (the people of however).

        My article is aimed at people who say, “Our scholars say that Allah does not lie NEVERTHELESS.”

        My article is aimed at the AHL NEVERTHELESS (the people of nevertheless).

        If you find yourself among the Ahl Nevertheless or the Ahl However, than rest assured “Ismail” the article is directed towards you.

        May Allah (swt) guide us to what is beloved to Allah (swt).

        May Allah (swt) cause our hearts not to swerve after receiving guidance.

      • Ismail

        post the views of Rashid Ahmed Gangohi and Mahmudul Hasan on this issue and from there we can take it further.

        Once we have their comments or views or Fatwas in black and white where they have stated that Allah can lie or possibly speak lies, then we may take it further.

        thanks and dont forget to put page numbers and references etc

      • Bismillah,

        Before I entertain anymore of your comments or questions you need to do the following.

        #1 Do you agree with my understanding of what constitutes Dar Al Uloom?

        #2) Do you agree that Rashid Ahmed Gangohir and Mahmudul Hasan are associated with or have been a part of the Debandi movement and/or Dar AL Uloom.

        If you are unable to address these two questions than you are done here.

        Thank you.

  3. Ismail

    as far as Rashid Ahmed Gangohi and Mahmudul Hasan are concerned – they are part and associated with Deoband. They are Ulama deoband.

    But to regard graduates of Darul Uloom Deoband to be “ulama e deoband’ or to mention thier views as deobands views is not always correct. some people qualify in deoband, but are anti deoband or they presnet views which are not the views of deoband.

    dont duck and dive from now please. give the fatwas in black and white.

    lets wait now for the Fatwas in black and white.

    • Ismail it is you and your people who are playing games.

      This is a link in English (as this is what the people here are reading and following) not Urdu, Gujurati or anything else.

      https://reliablefatwas.com/barelwi-slanders-ulama-e-haqq/slandering-hadhrat-maulana-rashid-ahmad-gangohi/

      That is as pro Rashid Ahmed Gangohi as you can get!

      Yet if you read carefully you see the following:

      “Whoever believes with regard to Allah Ta’ala or says verbally that Allah speaks lies, is an absolute kaafir and mal’oon (accursed). He is an opponent of the Qur’aan Hadith and the Ijma’ (Consensus of the Ummah. Never is he a Mu’min.

      “Allah Ta’ala is most high and above the (falsehood) which the transgressors speak.”

      HOWEVER….”

      He was actually doing so good up until the HOWEVER.

      Than you see the two examples he gives:
      1) That Allah swt could forgive someone he promised would go to hell.
      2) That Allah (swt) could destroy the universe right this very moment though He (swt) will choose to do so latter.

      If you do not see that as an attempt of reasoning with people (like myself) who object to the very idea that ALLAH SWT COULD LIE than there is absolutely no helping you.

      Are you going to deny that your Mufti that your Shaykh Rashid Ahmed Gangohi said the following?

      Rashid Ahmad Gangohi said:

      “The meaning of the possibility of (Allah) lying is that it is within the power of Allah to lie, meaning that whatever punishment has been promised (for the Kuffaar or sinners) by Allah, He has the Power to do the opposite to that even if He does not do it. Possibility does not necessarily mean occurance, but that it can occur … . So the beliefs of all the Scholars, Sufis and Ulema of Islam is that lies are within the Power of Allah. (Allah can lie).”
      Fatawa-e-Rasheedia, vol. 1 pg. 20, lines 11,12,14 and 15 (published: Kutub Khana Raheemia, Delhi – Press: Jayyad Barqi Press, Delhi)

      ???

      https://sunniworld.wordpress.com/2010/06/01/deobandi-aqida-the-almighty-allah-can-speak-a-lie-maazallah/

      As you Ismail seem to have made up your mind on this matter we will leave it to the readers to investigate and to judge.

      It is rather plain and obvious that your Rashid Ahmed Gangohi believed in the ability and possibility for Allah (swt) to lie.

      Here is another incredible site that goes to the extent of saying that even when we do produce the evidence of what Rashid Ahmed Gangohi said, it is now claimed to be a forgery, a fake!!!

      So it looks like you people have three positions.
      1) Outright deny such a belief and if that is what you truly believe than may Allah (swt) bless and protect you.
      2) Try and explain away such a belief (as you seen) In other words not deny that you believe such a possibility but to try and rationalize it.

      3) With documents starting you in the evidence by those who can read and understand Arabic, Urdu, Punjabi etc. to turn around now and say such works are forgeries, and lies.

      • Ismail

        it seems as if you don’t understand ENglish – let alone even the talk of Arabic, urdu, Punjabi, etc!!!

        We have only one question for you:

        Firoun is declared a Jahannami in the Qur’aan. However if you dont know this, then you are very stupid.

        So when Firoun is declared a Jahannami in the Qur’aan, does Allah still have the power to admit him into Jannah?

        Answer with a simple yes or no

        and you will HOWEVER realize how stupid indeed you are.

        Enjoy your Day!

      • Well and there you have it respected readers.

        May Allah swt guide the people from such carless and thoughtless doctrines.

      • Ismail

        yes, there you have it.

        You are incapable of answering the question.

        as simple as that

      • The whole of this post is about responding to the evil doctrine that you espouse.

        First of all after all this running around we come full circle to you using the very arguments that were already referenced and refuted.

        You use the same arguments for those who believe that it is POSSIBLE for Allah (swt) to lie.

        Even after making a huge fuss over how this wasn’t your belief!

        Well of course you can lie and be dishonest because you ascribe the possibility of such things to Allah (swt) without any since of shame.

        The answer to your question is no.

        The problem is you people think just because we human beings need to eat, procreate and sleep and Allah (swt) cannot do these things it some how constitutes a lack or humans can do what Allah (swt) cannot do.

        The problem with your reasoning is that we do these things exactly because of our lack, exactly because of our limitations.

        You see you and I believe in two different concepts of Allah (swt) actually.

        I believe in Allah (swt) the omniscient.

        You believe in some deity that can/needs to change his mind.

        The changing of his mind would be based upon some reason and surely that reason would have been known to my Creator to begin with (maybe not to your god).

        If you say your god needs to change his mind for no reason than you are saying that your god is whimsical.

        So the answer is no, the creator cannot be imperfect, the creator cannot be non omniscient.

        The creator cannot lie.

        You honestly have to ask yourself at some point Ismail, ‘what makes God , God?’

        What is it that make the divine, God? What properties/qualities.

        You and those of you among the Deobandis are still struggling with this.

        May Allah (swt) guide you to the Haqq.

      • Ismail, don’t talk about another person’s English when the very best that can be said about yours is that it’s “adequate.”

  4. Ismail

    well. Mr. jassie. you may continue denying the Qudrat of Allah. we do not follow the corrupt ibaadhi sect that destines people to jahannam due to their sins. and for which they have no proof

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