“And do not argue on behalf of those who deceive themselves. Indeed, Allah loves not one who is a habitually sinful deceiver.” (Qur’an, 4:107)
“They think to deceive Allah and those who believe, but they deceive not except themselves and perceive it not.” (Qur’an, 2:9)
“So He penalized them with hypocrisy in their hearts until the Day they will meet Him – because they failed Allah in what they promised Him and because they habitually used to lie.” (Qur’an, 9:77)
I believe it is very important that when we want to learn about another person’s world view or faith that we take it from those who espouse that world view or that faith. The best place to learn about the the Salafi view is from those who espouse and hold to that view.
The best place to learn the 12er Shi’a perspective is to go to their sources and judge based upon the material and information given.
I am just warning the reader because anyone can claim anything that they want. I can tell you the reader now that if you sincerely want to know about the school of Ahl Haqq Wal Istiqamah we can put you in touch with those of us who practice and follow the school. Those of us who have fellowship with each other. If you are a woman you can reach out to our sister Bint Ibadh domoo3d@hotmail.com and if you are a man you can put a comment here with your e-mail (which I will not publish) and I will respond to you personally.
We have a WhatsApp group, we have direct access to Shyookh, teachers of Ahl Haqq Wal Istiqamah. We take our sources direct from the teachers who in turn took from their teachers and so forth.
This particular individual is very fond of Orientalist and Orientalist writings. Rather than to seek a teacher who can instruct them on learning the basics of the deen, this person becomes busy with what the Orientalist have to say.
Now, I can understand if a person is a seeker and they are weighing the merits and claims of a particular faith tradition. Yet, why on Earth would a Muslim busy him/herself with every possible argument there can be against Islam? Like you have no foundation and are content with being blown about by the seas?
In my humble view this person is still a seeker. Nothing wrong with that, it’s just the pretention to being something that one is not. So, because the Ibadhi school is little known to the English speaking world and we DO have access, DIRECT access to Ibadhi sources and teachers, this individual used the label and our group to further their own agenda.
The person I have talked to has some very incoherent and almost panicked thought process. Like, “The Ibadhi need to get out there and make themselves known why aren’t they responding to all this.”
Yet when I tried to point out to the individual we are like what less than 1% (if that) of the entire Muslim ummah? What presence does this person think we need to have? Than came the issue of miracles and causality, and this ex Muslim on YouTube said this and said that. It’s like look, why not immerse yourself in the very basics and fundamentals of your faith. Learn theology, learn proofs and evidences for the existence of the divine. This person is a self admitted skeptic, as I said still a seeker.
Yet, this brings us back to a curious point. Why do we question Muslim sources and yet we do not question Orientalist statements? You do know for example that Orientalist, any orientalist can only say about another faith, culture, linguistic tradition, what that particular faith, culture, group informs them of.
I cannot say for example: “Muslims believe in Zeus.” because that would be patently false.
The second point is that Orientalist used to be categorized into two groups.
- Those that would intentionally misrepresent the Islamic tradition.
- Those that would simply inform an ignorant readership about the basic beliefs of Muslims. (Inquiring minds want to know.
Yet, a third group has arisen and some of it pivots back to point 1. That is coming up with theories or speculation about the Islamic tradition.
Unfortunately this person does not have the wherewithal to differentiate and they will claim the Ibadhi school and yet take what the orientalist say over what we say. By the way, if your a claimant to the school why would you not want to reach out to like minded individuals in your own country, city for fellowship?
https://ahlulistiqamah.co.uk/index.php/en/
This was brought to my attention recently. Thank you to the brother in Singapore.
The book in question is to be found here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Opposing-Imam-Literature-Cambridge-Civilization/dp/1108832814
“on God I know who wrote this first review in Amazon personally. It’s the dude who writes the PrimaQur’an articles. He is the one who told me about this book.” “That same pic on Amazon with the cover on the tablet screen is his picture!” “Bruh he ain’t even read the book-he told me that last week when I asked his thoughts about it when started reading it.”
- Either lying on Allah (swt) about another Muslim is a small matter for him.
- He is very lazy to do some basic home work and check sources.
Personally, from what I have seen I am open to either possibility.
First, point. That is not me who wrote that review. Also, I will NEVER write a review about a book or a movie that I have not finished. Third point that most certainly is not my picture.
At least here he was honest. “He is the one who told me about this book.”
So let us consider the rest of this individual’s statement:
‘on God I know who wrote this first review in Amazon personally. It’s the dude who writes the PrimaQur’an articles. He is the one who told me about this book.” “That same pic on Amazon witht he cover on the tablet screen is his picture!” “Bruh he ain’t even read the book-he told me that last week when I asked his thoughts about it when started reading it.”
“Right now he is pissed at though me because I said the Muhakkima called ‘Ali a kafir for arbitration when the split from him. But Adam Gaiser said, from reading the sources, tt’s hard to get an exact picture of what they meant by Kafir. They could have meant he was acting such and not actually a Kafir.”
This person himself does not have ANY evidence to show that any of the Muhakkima called Ali a kafir! However, he got something from you guessed it. An Orientalist told me so!
So I was speaking to this self proclaimed “Ibadhi” about someone on Twitter he asked me to connect with. Because that person had made an ignorant statement about the Ibadhi school. What is this individuals response: ”
Well Mr. I am all about the truth responds with:
“”No I never seen that comment. But I’m not bothered by it. He admits he’s not familiar with Ibadiyyah.”
Okaaay. Not bothered by someone being ill informed and yet comes with how the Ibadhi need to be more visible.
This same individual than goes and makes a whopper of a claim.
“But if ibadi considered Ali a Kafir-idk. The Muhakkima did, but what that meant to them is up for debate because I read it didn’t entail leaving the faith.”
- Not that it is reported to or attributed to but: “The Muhakkima did.”
Just like the more slippery Orientalist this individual made a matter of fact statement and than claimed what it meant was up for debate. Notice it was not up for debate rather or not the Muhakkima even said that. Let us just make wild asserting about the dead righteous people in the month of Ramadan and having absolutely no shame about it.
So what did your guy do? He just started clowning at that point. So his matter of fact statement was from an Orientalist, Adam Gaiser…
This is what the quoted section of the book says:
“Watt long ago noted the problems of the heresiographical genre: its late date, rigid taxonomy, and openly polemical attitude toward those groups it records. In a similar fashion, the difficulties posed by the genre of annalistic history, and indeed, of Islamic historiography in general.”
“-that is, layers of authors and editors, obscure motivations, and incomplete or contradictory accounts, to name but a few-are also well known to students of Islamic history. Given the state of our sources, the ultimate end of this study is not to find the historical ‘truth’ about the Muhakkima’s use of takfir by navigating the problems of the text; without Kharijite primary sources such an endeavor is likely to be fraught with complications, if not doomed to outright failure. Rather, a textual comparison of the ways.”
Now at this point I was starting to unbutton my shirt and starting rubbing my hands together. I was like WHAAAT? Our guy is claiming to be upon this school, to my knowledge doesn’t sit with any of our teachers, doesn’t take fiqh from our teachers, and yet wants to speak authoritatively on a subject he absolute knows nothing; save for what I and our teachers have informed him of. He is clowning.
Now for the discerning reader look at how slippery some orientalist can be. Not to mention how slippery some people can be.
A claim is made:
“But if ibadi considered Ali a Kafir-idk. The Muhakkima did, but what that meant to them is up for debate because I read it didn’t entail leaving the faith.”
Proof is asked: Where did the Muhakkima claim that Ali was a kafir?
“this study is not to find the historical ‘truth’ about the Muhakkima’s use of takfir by navigating the problems of the text; without Kharijite primary sources such an endeavor is likely to be fraught with complications, if not doomed to outright failure.”
There is not even proof that the Muhakkima called anyone a kafir! Some slippery orientalist like to do things like this:
“Teddy broke into the store and stole ice cream, but rather or not it was hot fudge or rocky road is something the sources cannot determine.”
Umm…how about do we know for certain that TEDDY BROKE INTO THE STORE to begin with? Notice how slippery Orientalist will present information as ‘matter of fact’ and try to slip in on the sly some ancillary points.
A brother also sent me this: This person sent this to another.
“Most Ibadis I’ve come across consider Al-Fazari to be a heretic.”
Which Ibadi? Who does this person know? Which scholar they in touch with today? Who are they in correspondence with? In fact this in the interview with the person who wrote the above book (the one lined at in Amazon that I supposedly commented about) well, that was a disaster. There were calls going off twice during the interview. Made a very bizarre comment about the Ibadi school at the end of the program.
So yeah don’t be surprised to see post from this person attacking, or trying to poo poo claims from our school. Any time they didn’t like anything, they would storm out of the chat group. May Allah (swt) guide this individual.
Take your knowledge from those who are both claimants, and those who practice said tradition. This blog of mine for example. I write many things about Christianity, Judaism, other Muslim schools, Sunni, Shi’a. It is best you take the claims made in this blog and check it against what the other said.
For some of us lying is a major sin. For others, it’s worth it if creates a spark, generates interest or raises clout.
Prima Quran 