“Moreover, those who strive for Us – We will surely guide them to Our ways. And indeed, Allah is with the doers of good.” (Qur’an 29:69)
“Truly, this is My way, leading straight: follow it: follow not other paths: they will scatter you about from His great path: thus does He command you, that you may become righteous.” (Qur’an 6:153)
“We take the truth even from a man of hatred and we reject falsehood even from a chosen friend. We have no respect for a man, however exalted, If from the truth he has deflected.”-Shaykh Abdullah bin Humeid Al Salmy
Before I begin this entry I would like to say two things.
I still love respect, honor, cherish, and wish to work with all Muslims.
- I have and will continue to love and respect and work with my Muslim brothers who are from the ‘Ahl Sunnah’ as well as the ‘Shi’i‘. I will continue to love and respect and work with all Muslims whether you are ‘Salafi‘ or ‘Sufi‘ in your orientation.
- The second thing I would like to say is that these are my thoughts and reflections. I do not wish to cause any ill feelings towards any of the Muslims.
Please know I will speak very candidly about my own conclusions. Also, this entry is about 16 pages in length! I would ask that you, the respected reader would read this in sections and then take a break.
A brief overview of why I started Prima-Qur’an.
As those of you know who have been following my blog Prima-Qur’an that it is the result of unanswered questions that I have had in my years of being with the group that calls itself ‘The Ahl Sunnah‘. I think that many Muslims who are in the field of daw’ah (calling people to Islam) do not appreciate that just because a person becomes a Muslim does not mean that they do not have any more questions about Islam.
Also, it is crucial to remember that just because we give someone an answer it doesn’t mean that the answer is intelligible, sensible, or coherent.
For many of us as converts, it is a continuous process of taking on new information as it is being presented, weighing, and evaluating this information.
The struggle of us converts.
We are converting are told that “Islam is simple” only to find out much later it is anything but simple -at least not the Islam that is being presented to the multitudes.
We are told that the Shahadah is “I bear witness that there is only one God and Muhammed is the Messenger of God” only to find out that the “correct Shahadah” entails taking on the theological, juristic, philosophical, historical baggage of the group who administered the Shahadah to us.
Examples being:
“I bear witness that there is one God and Muhammed is the Messenger of God, and Dawatus Salafiyyah is correct in all issues of fiqh and aqidah and that Bukhari is infallible and if Al Abani, Uthaymee, and Bin Baz say something that it must be true, and the by the way the Qur’an is uncreated and Allah has a ‘foot’but not like other feet.”
“I bear witness that there is one God and Muhammed is the Messenger of God, and that the books of Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud, Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah, are the books we rely upon, that I bear witness that I will choose between any of the four schools of jurisprudence, Maliki, Shafi, Hanbali, and Hanafi, and there are two schools of aqidah I can choose from, yet I’m not supposed to make taqlid in aqidah, and eventually when I get around to it or when he finds me I will be guided to a Sufi Tariah who will take care of my spiritual affairs and guide me to safe shores.”
“I bear witness that there is one God and Muhammed is the Messenger of God, and we are to be guided by the 12 Imams, and only the Ahl Bayt are the sources of true knowledge of true guidance, and temporary marriage is a thing.”
When those of us as converts take the Shahadah I believe we do so for various reasons but why we feel comfortable with saying that declaration is that we do come to some rational, emotional, spiritual understanding that there is One Almighty Creator.
We either are moved by the call to prayer, the congregational prayer, the treatment by fellow Muslims, something we read in a translation of the Qur’an, something that pulls us in that direction; and if this man Muhammed (saw) is the who has imputed this information we have no problem in accepting that he must be the envoy, ambassador, messenger and prophet of this One Almighty Creator.So now we have taken the shahadah, to the thunderous sounds of Takbir! Allahu Akbar! (God is Greater) The warm embraces of fellow Muslims. So now we are Muslims, members of 1.6 billion community worldwide. Feels amazing right?
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FOLLOWING ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER AND SOMEONE’S UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER WANT.
Now here comes the fine print. Now we will be expected to embrace and defend the historical, philosophical, theological, juristic world view of the bunch we took our Shahadah with.
So as I stated above I was never comfortable with the ‘packaged deal‘. Now I certainly understand that Islam means submission. I certainly understand that our ego is like a wild horse that needs to be broken. I certainly understand that we are all of us are products of presuppositions. I certainly understand that we are slaves of Allah (swt).
Yet in the same breadth I certainly understand when a position or view is not based upon facts or something solid, I certainly understand when a position or a view is cacophonous and discordant. I can sit with learned pious and well-meaning people from sunrise until sunset and still understand when there are woeful inconsistencies in a viewpoint. I can even look a person in the eye and glean from it that they are uncertain of what they are saying. I am capable of all of that by the grace of Allah (swt).
MY POSITION WILL ALWAYS BE PRIMA-QUR’AN.
I also want to make a few other points before talking about my decision to follow the Ibadi school. I will discuss what I feel the Ibadi school gives me closure on and how it aligns with my own research and findings, with more discoveries to be made. I also want to make it a point that my world view as a Muslim is still very much Prima-Qur’an. The Ibadi school doesn’t expect anyone to practice Taqlid. This is a breath of fresh air for me. I will always uphold the Qur’an over any ahadith, fiqh, ijtihad that conclusively clashes with fundamental teachings or precepts in the Qur’an.
THE IBADI SCHOOL GIVES ME CLOSURE ON AND WHY I FEEL IT IS THE SCHOOL OF JURISPRUDENCE OF THE FUTURE.
- THE UPRIGHTNESS OF THE COMPANIONS THE COMPANIONS WERE ALL ANGELS WHO DID NO WRONG.
I believe not only we as convert Muslims but many born and raised Muslims read many of the ahadith concerning many of the companions and cannot possibly walk away with the impression that these people were all angels and saints.
The civil wars among the companions are all too easily swept under the rug by ‘Ahl Sunnah’. Statements like “when lions fight dogs bark” are not an intellectually robust nor serious way to address the matter.
Well listen to what this respected ‘Sunni‘ scholar and researcher of hadith, Professor Jonathan Brown, has to say:
“There are even reports from the early historian al-Mada’ini that Mu’awiya encouraged systematic forging and circulation of hadiths affirming the virtues of the caliphs and Companions at Ali’s expense.” (cited from Al-Mada’ini’s Kitab al-ahdath; Ahmad b Sa’d al-Din al-Miswari, Al Risala al-munqidha min al-ghiwaya fi turuq al riwaya, pp. 51-55)”
Source: This citation is found in Dr. Jonathan Browns book “Hadith Muhammad’s Legacy in the Medieval and Modern World page 7o”
“That the collective impunity of the Companions was a later construct of the Sunni worldview is evident when one finds occasional minor Companions listed in early books of weak hadith transmitters.”
Source: (Hadith: Muhammed’s Legacy in the Medieval and Modern World’ by Dr. Jonathan Brown page 88)
This is why, for example, you have forged hadith like the one about the “10 promised paradise“. None of these companions bring this hadith up when fighting each other? Ali doesnt’ quote it in his letters to Muaviya. Talha and Zulbar don’t remember that Ali is guaranteed paradise when fighting him. The companions who killed Uthman forgot about this hadith? That is quite sus.
“The Prophet said, “On the Day of Resurrection a group of companions will come to me but will be driven away from the Lake-Fount, and I will say, ‘O Lord those are my companions!’ It will be said, ‘You have no knowledge as to what they innovated after you left; they turned apostate as renegades.” (Book #76, Hadith # 585 Bukhari)
Say: “I am no bringer of new doctrine among the messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration; I am but a Warner open and clear.” (Qur’an 46:9)
“There are many authentic traditions in which Companions describe other Companions as kadhdhabin (liars) when relating a hadith. Sunni scholars hold that kadhdhab in these cases only means “being in grave error.”
Sources: Suhaib H. Abdul Ghafar, Criticism of Hadith Among Muslims with Reference to Sunan Ibn Maja (IFTA: 1984), pp. 59-63. Also, G.H.A. Juynboll, Muslim Tradition, Cambridge (1983), pp., 190-206.” -From Professor Jeffery Lang’s Book: Losing My Religion A Call for Help pg.211
There is no way intellectually that I can accept the way our brothers from the ‘Ahl Sunnah‘ go through in order to salvage this doctrine.
So when you have books of theology like Al-Aqidah al-Tahwaiyyah mention the following about the companions:
” Whoever speaks well of the companions of the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, and his wives, pure of any defilement, and his sanctified progeny, he is innocent of any hypocrisy.”
You will see this becomes a matter of creed. It is now a matter of theology and not historical investigation.
The contributions of ‘Ahl Sunnah‘ to the Ummah of Muhammed (saw) are gargantuan. May Allah (swt) reward every one of their scholars for the most sincere efforts. Often what happens is because of this doctrine many of the laymen of ‘Ahl Sunnah‘ feel that this presentation cannot be correct and they become captivated with the Shi’i narrative.
SO WHY NOT BECOME A SHIA?
First, it is important to understand that just as the ‘Ahl Sunnah‘ has undergone transformation through history, so have the ‘Shi’i‘ or the ‘Partisans of Ali‘.
Yet, I am not ready to believe that people like Abu Bakr As Siddiq and Umar were people who robbed Ali.
The whole idea of Muslims being ruled through the family of the Prophet (saw) is not something I find support for in the Qur’an nor the idea of being ruled by 12 or even 7 Imams.
So though I agree with the Shi’i brothers that it is not possible that all the companions were angels and saints who did no wrong, it is also not possible for me to stay fixated upon that point in Muslim history. I also apply equal weights. If we open up the possibility that the companions were human beings some of you were given to human frailties and misguidance that must now equally apply to everyone,including Ali.
With due respect to my Shi’i brothers, they seem like they are always look back with no future other than hanging hopes upon a Mahdi salvation figure.
Also if the things that Shi’i say about Ali (r.a) and the Ahl Bayt are true it only leaves me unfortunately with not very positive thoughts concerning Ali. For example, if it is your divine right to rule over the people who can you just sit back and allow Abu Bakr and Umar to reign?
Understandably he ruled over a very difficult time in Muslim history but if Ali was to be this Imam that the Shi’i claim with all the attributes that entails, ruling for 5 years does seem very lackluster. I just try to find things that are over all glorious and noteworthy about the Caliphate of Ali and I always seem to come up short.
Not only this but many Shi’i focus so much on Ali that they forget the story begins with him but doesn’t end there. When discussing with my Pro Alid friends for the sake of the discussion I will say. O.K Ali and than? Hasan or Hussein is next? Why does the line go through Hussein and not Hassan? O.K Than who is next? Eventually you will have to now make a choice between the Zaydi, Jafari, and Ismaili narratives on who really is the Imam and if it stopped or continued.
Lastly, if I was to be a Shi’i I would also have to apply the same scrutiny to Ali as I do other companions. In other words, I could agree and do agree that Ali is the fourth of the Rashidun Kaliphs. Ali was unjustly opposed by Talha, Zubayr, and later Muaviya.
So technically I am a Shi’i (supporter of Ali) on these points.
However, if the companions can make errors in judgment, and commit wrongdoing I would have to be consistent and apply the same criteria to all companions, including Ali.
I have done exactly that and I have found Ali to be in error in the battle of Siffin in his arbitration with Muaviya. I found him to be in error killing the companions at Nahrawan. This brings me to my second point.
2. WHO SHOULD RULE THE MUSLIMS?
The ‘Ahl Sunnah‘ believe that Muslims must be ruled from a Caliph and that this Caliph has to come from the tribe of the Quresh.
The Shi’a believe that the Muslims have to be ruled by the Ahl Bayt (The Noble Prophets Family).
The Ibadi believe that any upright and righteous Muslim can lead the Muslims. This view is an egalitarian view that we actually find support for in the Sunnah.
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
Allah’s Messenger (saw) is reported to have said, “You should listen to and obey your ruler even if he was an Ethiopian (black) slave whose head looks like a raisin.” The next point.
3. HOW SHOULD RULE OF THE MUSLIMS BE DECIDED?
Our brothers from ‘Ahl Sunnah‘ claim that the leader should be selected by a group of men. However, we can see dynastic hereditary rule throughout Muslim history.
The ‘Shi’i‘ claim that the rule is through the ‘Ahl Bayt‘ simply being a descendant of the Blessed Prophet (saw) is qualification enough. This is something soundly refuted by the Qur’an.
“So remember that Ibrahim was tried by his Lord with certain commands, which he fulfilled: He said: “I will make you an Imam to the Nations.” He pleaded: “And also (Imams) from my offspring!” He answered: “But My Promise is not within the reach of evil-doers.” (Qur’an 2:142)
Allah (swt) told Ibrahim that simply being a descendant of a prophet is not criteria enough to be as ruler.
This can be clearly seen with the ‘Ahl Bayt‘ of Noah.
“He said: “O Noah! He is not of your family: For his conduct is unrighteous. So ask not of Me that of which you have no knowledge! I give you counsel, don’t act like the ignorant!” (Qur’an 11:46)
The Ibadi position is that the righteous in the community will come together through consultation and elect the leader.
“Moreover, those who have responded to their lord and established prayer and whose affair is [determined by] consultation among themselves, and from what We have provided them, they spend.” (Qur’an 42:38)
In fact here is something interesting.
Hussein Ghubash, delegate of the United Arab Emirates to UNESCO,
Chairman of the G77 in Paris and author of “Oman-The Islamic Democratic Tradition” he sees the Ibadi school as a proto- democratic tradition.
You can see the link here: https://www.amazon.com/Hussein-Ghubash/e/B001HPC72Q
So it is very possible with the Ibadi school to have a representative democracy where representatives are chosen and ultimately these representatives choose the Imam/ Caliph.
من أسرار تأريخ أهل الحق والاستقامة أنهم إذا عينوا إماما بعد مشورة أهل الحل والعقد، كان الإمام خادما لهم، وإن أخطأ بدلوه بإماما آخر، ولم يقدسونه يوما ولم يقدمونه على أمر الله.
“One of the secrets of the history of the people of truth and integrity is that if they appointed an imam after the advice of the people of the solution and the contract, the imam was their servant, and if he erred, they replaced him with another imam, and they never sanctified him and did not put him before the command of Allah.”
A sincere ruler would seek the mercy of Allah (swt) to rule in accordance with this understanding. A despot would flee from it. The people of the world, especially Westerners are never going to be keen to be ruled by a despot.
The next point.
IBADHI DOESN’T TEACH INFERIORITY/SUPERIORITY COMPLEX
I can say that with full confidence that the Ibadi school embraces what Allah (swt) teaches us in the Qur’an about being one humanity and what has been related to us by the Blessed Messenger (saw).
As we have already seen, our brothers from the ‘Ahl Sunnah’ and the ‘Shi’i‘ will have it that the destiny of humanity is that we will be ruled by Arabs, simply by them being Quresh, or being Imams from the family of the Blessed Prophet (saw). Ths is really no different than the aspirations of Zionist Jews who believe it is their destiny to rule over humanity.
Among the ‘Ahl Sunnah‘ these are opinions from respected scholar the noble Imam Shafi’i
We see the following regarding the kafa’a for marriage in the classic Shafi’i manual of Islamic law titled ‘Umdat as-Salik wa ‘Uddat an-Nasik (Reliance of the Traveller and Tools of the Worshipper):
والكفاءةُ في: النسَبِ والدِّينِ والحريةِ والصَّنعةِ وسلامة العيوبِ المُثْبِتَةِ للخِيار، فلا يُكافئ العجميُّ عربيةً، ولا غيرُ قُرَشيٍّ قُرشيَّةً، ولا غيرُ هاشميٍّ أو مُطَّلبيٍّ هاشميةً أو مطَّلبيةً، ولا فاسقٌ عفيفةً، ولا عبدٌ حرةً، ولا العتيقُ أو من مسَّ آباءَهُ رِقٌّ حرةَ الأصلِ، ولا ذو حِرفَةٍ دنيئةٍ بنتَ ذي حِرفةٍ أرفعَ، كخياطٍ بنتَ تاجرٍ، ولا معيبٌ بعيبٍ يُثْبِتُ الخِيارَ سليمةً منهُ، ولا اعتبارَ باليسارِ والشيخوخةِ، فمتى زوَّجها بغَيْرِ كُفءٍ بغَيرِ رضاها ورِضا الأولياءِ الذينَ هم في درَجتهِ فالنِّكاحُ باطلٌ، وإن رَضُوا أو رضيَتْ فليسَ للأبعدِ اعتراضٌ.
(Taken from the section of Kafa’a in the chapter of Nikaah in the text)
Translation: Kafa’a (Suitability in marriage for a female) is in the lineage (ancestry of the man), and in religiousness, and his being a free man (not a slave), and in his profession, and his being free of defects that can cause the annulment of the marriage. And the ajami (non-Arab) is NOT suitable for an Arab woman, and a non-Qurayshi is NOT suitable for a Qurayshi woman (Quraysh was the trtibe of the Holy Prophet (S)), nor is a non-Hashimi or non-Muttalabi suitable for a Hashimi or Muttalabi woman (Hashimites are the members of the clan to which the Holy Prophet (S) belonged to), and Muttalabites are the descendants of the grandfather of the Holy Prophet(S)). Nor is an immoral man suitable for a virtuous woman, nor is a slave suitable for a free woman, nor is a freed slave or one whose ancestors were touched by slavery suitable for a (free) woman whose ancestors were free. Nor is a man of a lowly profession suitable for the daughter of someone with a noble profession, such as a tailor wanting to marry a tradesman’s daughter.
We can see the following are NOT kafa’a (suitable for marriage) for women:
- Non-Arab men for Arab women
- Non-Qurayshi man for a Qurayshi woman
- Non-Hashimi or non-Muttalabi for a Hashimi or Muttalabi woman
- Sinful man for virtuous a woman
- A slave or a freed slave for a free woman
- A free man but one whose ancestors might have been slaves for a free woman whose ancestors were not slaves
- A man with a lowly profession for a woman whose father has a noble profession
We also have the opinion of Ibn Taymiyyah in his (IqtiDaa’ Siraat al-Mustaqeem, volume 1, page 419) the following:
فإن الذي عليه أهل السنة والجماعة اعتقاد أن جنس العرب أفضل من جنس العجم عبرانيهم وسريانيهم رومهم وفرسهم وغيرهم وأن قريشا أفضل العرب وأن بني هاشم أفضل قريش وأن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أفضل بني هاشم فهو أفضل الخلق نفسا وافضلهم نسبا
Indeed it is the belief of the Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jama’ah that the race of Arabs is superior to the race of non-Arabs, the Hebrews (Jews), the Syrians (Arameans), the Romans (Europeans), the Persians, and others. And indeed the Quraysh [tribe of the Prophet (S)] is the most superior among the Arabs. And indeed the Banu Hashim [the clan of the Prophet (S)] is the most superior among the Quraysh. And indeed the Prophet, may the Blessings and Peace of Allah be upon him, is the most superior of the Banu Hashim, for he is the most superior of all creation by his own self, and also the most superior among them because of his lineage (ancestry).
The links to this information USED TO BE HERE: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=9427&CATE=1
Wonder why this was taken down??
This is not the case for the Ibadi school.
The Ibadi school gained wide acceptance all across North Africa, the Sahara because of sticking to the message of the universality of humanity.
I am quite sure and quite confident that Muslims of all ethnic and racial backgrounds do not want to trade the current world order of Western Hegemony and White Centers of Power only to go to a world of Arab Hegemony and Arab Centers of Power.
Nobody wants to trade one system of oppression for another. This has misled and misguided many among the Arabs to call black people abeed (slave) when in reality all of us are slaves. Or you may find that some Arabs consider it a taboo to call their children ‘Bilal‘.
The Ibadi position on the fraternity of humanity is based upon the following:
O, men! Behold, We have created you all out of a male and a female, and have made you into nations and tribes so that you might come to know one another. Truly, the noblest of you in the sight of Allah is the one who is most deeply conscious of Him. Behold, Allah is all-knowing, All-Aware. (Qur’an 49:13)
“But the Jews and the Christians say, “We are the children of Allah and His beloved (hibbaohu).” Say, “Then why does He punish you for your sins? ”Rather, you are human beings from among those He has created. He forgives whom He wills, and He punishes whom He wills. And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them, and to Him is the [final] destination.” (Qur’an 5:18)
In a sublime oral tradition we find:
Abu Nadrah reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace, and blessings be upon him, is reported to have said: “O people, your Lord is one and your father Adam is one. There is no favor of an Arab over a foreigner, nor a foreigner over an Arab, and neither white skin over black skin nor black skin over white skin, except by righteousness. Have I not delivered the message?” Source: Musnad Ahmad 22978, Grade: Sound “Have I not delivered the message?” Subhan’Allah. Indeed you have our Master, our Heart, the Mercy sent unto the worlds!
IBADI SCHOOL IS NOT FOCUSED ON ESCHATOLOGICAL END TIME EVENTS. BEST SCHOOL TO RESTABLISH CALIPHATE.
Now before I begin my argument here let me say clearly that we as Muslims should never give up the Palestinian cause. We should always demand justice for the Palestinians and the right to a homeland and self-determination. The day the Muslim community gives up the cause of the Palestinians we will have lost a piece of our own souls.
Now, why would I say the Ibadi school has the best chance to make peace with Israel (Occupied Palestine)? I not only say that but I say the Ibadi school is the school with the most hopeful outlook for the future.
In the Ibadi school, there is absolutely 100% no belief that a Mahdi will come or that Jesus will return again and kill all of the Jews and instigate Armageddon.
Think about it. Logically, Israel is a nuclear-armed power based by another superpower. Already Saudi Arabia, the U.A.E, Bahrain, and other states have had meetings and delegations from Israel.
Again, I don’t think normalization with Israel should come at the cost of abandoning the Palestinian people or their cause.
Yet, if you were an Israeli think tank and you are forced to deal with a ‘Sunni world view‘ that has a core belief that sometime in the future Jesus (a.s) will show up and give your people the choice to accept Islam or die how hopeful would peace prospects be with such people?
The Ibadi position is in line with Allah (swt) told us in the Qur’an. That position is that Christ Jesus is dead. Not only this but the Ibadi school does not hang its hopes or future on some possibly distant messianic figure; Christ Jesus or Mahdi.
To me, this makes the Ibadi school the school of the future because it is teaching us to live in the here and now and to be practical. Muslims need to work together to solve the problems of today. We cannot hang our hopes by thinking any moment now some apocalyptic figure will pop up and then he will ‘get even with the kuffar!‘.
How long have we been waiting for anyway?
Unfortunately, in many ways, our beloved brothers from the ‘Ahl Sunnah‘ and the ‘Shi’i‘ are either living in the past, beholden to the clash of the Ummayad Muawiya, and the Pro Alids. They fighting between the companions. Each side are never going to live it down. Or they are looking off to the distant horizon for some salvation figure. The Ibadi school is living in and dealing with the present reality. The Ibadi school is not defined by the past, other than trying to emulate the most beautiful human and most excellent example in the Blessed Prophet (saw). The Ibadi school is not hanging its hope in some fatalistic future salvation figure that may never come. We have the Qur’an and the Sunnah. We are to live in the NOW!
Other reasons for my decision:
IBADI SCHOOL HAS A SOUND THEOLOGY BASED UPON THE QUR’ANAND SUNNAH
The Ibadi school does not hold anthropomorphic views on the attributes of Allah (swt).
“Indeed, those who pledge allegiance to you, [O Muhammad] – they are actually pledging allegiance to Allah. The hand of Allah is over their hands. So he who breaks his word only breaks it to the detriment of himself. And he who fulfills that which he has promised Allah – He will give him a great reward.” (Qur’an 48:10)
There are only three ways to interpret this verse consistently.
- Allah’s hand is a literal hand and their hands are literal hands.
- Allah’s hand is a hand but unlike other hands (which are unlike other hands).
- Allah’s power and authority are over their power and authority.
Interpretation 3 is the most sensible interpretation.
We see this in the following example: “Except their wives or those their right-hand posses, for indeed they will not be blamed.” (Qur’an 23:6)
It is not logical to think of a woman or any person being in someone’s hand. The understanding of “hand” here is power or authority.
“Truly, it is not the eyes that grow blind, but it is the hearts which are in the breast that grow blind.” (Qur’an 22:46)
Here the heart is attributed with blindness or conversely seeing and these things are allegorical and not to be taken by its outward meaning.
People who have interpreted the various claimed attributes of Allah (swt) by their apparent outward without giving interpretation have run into enormous difficulty.
For example:
“And do not invoke with Allah another deity. There is no deity except Him. Everything will be destroyed except His Face. His is the judgment, and to Him, you will be returned.” (Qur’an 28:88)
If you interpret this by its apparent meaning without comparing it to anything or giving it an interpretation you have the understanding of everything of Allah (swt), his shin, foot, hands, etc will be destroyed except his (Allah’s) face. This gives the very illogical idea of the Creator being composed of parts and the possibility that some aspects of the Creator can be vanquished and others cannot.
C) The Ibadi school does not believe that we will see Allah (swt) in the hereafter.
Personally, this is another “packaged deal” from our brothers in ‘Ahl Sunnah’. I never did find this view to be at all cohesive. I can personally understand how ‘Sunni‘ Muslims who follow the ‘Athari‘ or Modern ‘Salafi‘ perspective on Allah (swt) and his attributes have reconciled themselves to the idea that they will see Allah (swt). However, it has always come as extremely inconsistent for those ‘Sunni‘ Muslims who call themselves ‘Ashari‘ or ‘Maturidi‘ to uphold the view.
They (Ashari/Maturidi) claim that Allah (swt) is not time/space and yet they are adamant about seeing Allah (swt). Though, I have noticed many of them soften the stance with ‘beatific vision‘.
Narrated Masruq:
I said to ‘Aisha, “O Mother! Did Prophet Muhammad see his Lord?” Aisha said, “What you have said makes my hair stand on end! Know that if somebody tells you one of the following three things, HE IS A LIAR: Whoever tells you that Muhammad saw his Lord, IS A LIAR.” Then Aisha recited the Verses:
‘No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision. He is the Most Courteous Well-Acquainted with all things.’ (Qur’an 6:103)
‘It is not fitting for a human being that Allah should speak to him except by inspiration or from behind a veil.’ (Qur’an 42:51)
Source: (Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 378)
D) The Ibadi school believes that the Qur’an is created.
Now for me personally from the moment I took the Shahadah, sat with the ‘Muslim brotherhood‘, followed the ‘Salafi Manhaj‘, went to the ‘Rihla‘ at Zaytuna in 2001, and adopted the ‘Maliki‘ school, I have never ever felt comfortable with this. I have looked into it and I just cannot believe as an aqidah position that the Qur’an is uncreated and eternal.
*Note* The idea that the Qur’an is eternal and uncreated is an agreed-upon position by all of our brothers from the ‘Ahl Sunnah’. This means ‘Salafis‘, ‘Sunni‘ and ‘Sufi‘ orientated ‘Sunni‘. It means those who follow the madhab of Bin Baz, Uthaymeen, and Al Abani (May Allah’s mercy be upon them all). This also means those who follow the madhabs of Imams, Malik, Shafi’i, and Abu Hanifa (May Allah’s mercy be upon them all).
Now as mentioned above about the ‘seeing of Allah‘ in the afterlife I can understand why the ‘Athari’ or Modern ‘Salafi‘ of ‘Ahl Sunnah’ accept this. However, when it comes to the issue of the Qur’an being created the opposite is puzzling for me.
I can personally understand how ‘Sunni‘ Muslims who follow the ‘Athari’ or Modern ‘Salafi‘
Yet, when it comes to the Qur’an being eternal and uncreated this is a position I can understand how the ‘Ashari‘ or ‘Maturidi‘ accept this; however, for the ‘Athari‘ or Modern ‘Salafi‘ this should be clear kalaam for them. They have to impose theological suppositions about Allah (swt) rather than allow the text to speak.
The verses of the Qur’an are clear on the matter.
“Indeed, We have made it an Arabic Qur’an that you might understand.” (Qur’an 43:3)
Allah (swt) has clearly said that he has made the Qur’an.
“So We have revealed to you an inspiration of Our command. You did not know what is the Book or [what is] faith, but We have made it a light by which We guide whom We will of Our servants. And indeed, [O Muhammad], You guide to a straight path.” (Qur’an 42:52)
Is the Qur’an a thing or nothing?
If the Qur’an is nothing than let that stand on the record.
If the Qur’an is a thing then please be reminded of what Allah (swt) says:
“That is Allah, your Lord; there is no deity except Him, the Creator of all things, so worship Him. And He is Disposer of all things.” (Qur’an 6:102)
“We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?” (Qur’an 2:106)
Abrogation is omission, removal and it is impossible for that which is eternal. The idea that some part of Allah’s essence of ‘speech’ would be ‘better’ than other parts merits pensive reflection.
“Before this, We wrote in the Psalms, after the Message (given to Moses): My servants the righteous, shall inherit the earth.” (Qur’an 21:105)
Where is this revelation and action that preceded the eternal uncreated Qur’an?
“Has there not been over Man a long time, when he was nothing – (not even) mentioned?” (Qur’an 76:1)
If the Qur’an is eternal and uncreated the answer is no because Man is being mentioned in the very verse asking the question.
“No mention comes to them anew from their Lord except that they listen to it while they are at play.” (Qur’an 7:52)
Muhdath in Arabic means newly made. And since it’s newly made it cannot be eternal. i.e. It came after being nothing which means “Created”
We also need to ask about the hadith Qudsi is this the speech of Allah? As such is it eternal and uncreated as well? What about the Torah, the Injeel, and the Zabur?
All I want to say is that I am more at peace and I feel more confident that the Ibadi school has accepted conclusions from the clear text in the Qur’an rather than to impose their theology upon the Qur’an.
I also want to say (for the record) I do not make takfir of anyone who believes that the Qur’an is eternal and uncreated. However, I just want to say best of luck to you when debating our learned Christian friends!
E) The Ibadi believe that hellfire is eternal for those who commit major sins and for the polytheist.
Personally, I can remember being quite elated and jubilant at the idea that the Blessed Prophet Muhammed (saw) will make shafat and that because of this shafat the entire Ummah will enter into paradise.
However, this idea takes the sting out of the hellfire. It makes us complacent, even when we read how awesome and gruesome the punishment of the hellfire is, many of us as Muslims can, could, and in fact, do become complacent. We treat hellfire as a minor threat.
I also feel that such a position is held on to because it is not politically correct to tell the polytheist that they will be in the hellfire.
This differs from our brothers from ‘Ahl Sunnah’ who believe that those who commit major sins among Muslims will be let out of the hellfire.
We can see from the Qur’an that the idea of hellfire being a temporary abode is a theological position attributed to the Jews of that time.
“So they say: “The Fire shall not touch us but for a few numbered days:” Say: “Have ye taken a promise from God, for He never breaks His promise? or is it that ye say of God what ye do not know?” (Qur’an 2:80)
“That is because they say: The Fire will not touch us save for a certain number of days. That which they used to invent has deceived them regarding their religion.” (Qur’an 3:24)
“To those who reject Our signs and treat them with arrogance, no opening will there be of the gates of heaven, nor will they enter the garden, until the camel can pass through the eye of the needle: Such is Our reward for those in sin.” (Qur’an 7:40)
As we know, a camel will NEVER pass through the eye of a needle. May Allah (swt) protect us all from the hellfire.
“So those who were but followers will say: If a return were possible for us, we would disown them even as they have disowned us. Thus will Allah show them their own deeds as anguish for them, and they will not emerge from the Fire.” (Qur’an 2:167)
“However, those who reject (God) – for them will be the Fire of Hell: No term shall be determined for them, so they should die, nor shall its Penalty be lightened for them. Thus do We reward every ungrateful one!” (Qur’an 35:36)
“Their wish will be to get out of the Fire, but never will they get out of that place: their penalty will be one that endures.” (Qur’an 5:37)
“The belief of us Ibadis is that whoever enters the Fire from among the muwahhid disobedient and those who associate partners (mushriks) will remain therein permanently, not for a finite period. In the same way, those who enter Paradise from among the righteous servants of Allah will not come out of it. For both places are permanent stays.” -Shaykh Ahmad b. Hamad al-Khalili Mufti of Oman
“And leave those who have taken their religion for a play and an idle sport, and whom this world’s life has deceived, and remind (them) thereby lest a soul should be given up to destruction for what it has earned; it shall not have besides Allah any guardian nor an intercessor…” (Qura’n 6:70)
Let us say for the same of argument that this particular theological position of the Ibadis is wrong. What harm is there in acting on it as if it is correct? Surely there is only gain and a strong warning for us. This is the best insurance is to treat the matters of one’s final destination with utmost concern and sincerity.
IBADI POSITIONS ON FIQH.
Here are some unique aspects of the Ibadi school when it comes to jurisprudence, usul ul fiqh.
Point 1) The Ibadi school is the oldest living legal school.
When Jabir bin Zaid died the first Sunni Imam, Abu Hanifa was only thirteen years old, while Imam Malik was just being born. Abu ash-Shatha was a direct student of many of the Prophet’s Companions in both Hijaz and Iraq such as Ibn Abbas, Aisha, Ibn Mas’ud, (May Allah be pleased with them all). He was fully aware of the Hijazi school of hadith and the Iraqi school of ra’y. Thus, he was well-informed and able to make decisions based upon this exposure.
Point 2) Companions’ opinions and actions do not serve as independent proof.
A whole host and range of things are looked into before making legal decisions.
Point 3) The Ibadi school is against the idea of Taqlid.
If one is able to do to or make ijtihad they should do so. One should take the strongest proofs based upon sound methodological principles.
Point 4) The Ibadi school does not believe in the Abrogation of the Qur’an.
“Abrogation is never permitted in the reports of the Law-Maker because His Knowledge is not refreshed, and He is not ignorant of anything that happens, and He does not reveal but the truth.” -Ahmed bin Hamad al-Khalili
Point 5) Against the idea that every Mujtahid is correct.
IWhen Mujtahids arrive at completely different conclusions logically one cannot be correct.
Point 6) Ever Evolving ‘Ijma’ or Consensus.
Our brothers from the ‘Ahl Sunnah’ where once a consensus is reached it has the status of revelation. However, this is not the position of the Ibadi school. Often new evidence is discovered or a new reality may come about that will demand a shift in perspective.
In the Ibadi school, the consensus can and indeed has changed.
Examples of that being: Issues like rather or not to do the Friday Prayer in the absence of a just ruler. Rather or not righteous non-Ibadi who do not couple the right action with the right belief go to heaven or not.
With the Ibadi school not having a fixed ‘ijma, the fact that Taqlid is frowned upon; this position is amenable to change based upon proofs, evidence, and rigorous debate.
In other words, the Ibadi school is amenable to change in ways that our brothers from the ‘Ahl Sunnah’ are not. This is due to many equating ‘ijma to revelation’ Likewise our brothers from the ‘Shi’i‘. This is because of the way the ‘12er Shi’a‘ assign infallibility to their Imams in jurisprudence.
This to me also strong proof that the Ibadi school is the school of jurisprudence for the future and future generations.
Lastly the fruit of the Ibadi school of Islam as seen in Oman.
Now in Oman, ‘Shi’i’, ‘Sunni’, and ‘Ibadi’ Muslims pray together in the Masjid. We are all brothers. It is the one country in the Middle East in which different groups of Muslims are not fighting and killing each other. Look at Syria, Iraq, Yemen, and other places where sectarianism is horrific and bringing great evil everywhere. It will be a miracle if the children of those countries do not grow up to become averse to religion altogether.
In Oman, there are very rich and flourishing ‘Sunni‘ and ‘Shi’a‘ communities. Not only this but Hindus have temples and Christians have their churches there. The people of Oman, its’s government guided by principles of wisdom and tolerance do not in anyway shape or form feel threatened by multiculturalism.
They (the Ibadi Muslims) in Oman have openly extended invitations to ‘Sunni‘ Muslims of the ‘Salafi Manhaj‘ like our brother Shaykh Yusuf Estes: https://timesofoman.com/article/95088/Oman/Education/American-Islamic-lecturer-Yusuf-Estes-captivates-audience-in-Oman
As well as our respected Imam Khalid Yasin here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA_o1jnz-90
and Shaykh Mufti Menk here: https://timesofoman.com/article/465018/Oman/Video-Grand-Mufti-of-Zimbabwe-to-visit-Oman
As well as ‘Sunni‘ Muslims of the ‘Sufi‘ persuasion like the respected Shaykh Hamza Yusuf here: https://realityinoman.wordpress.com/2010/04/13/shaykh-hamza-yusuf-visiting-oman/
As well as world-famous Dr. Adnan Ibrahim, as you can see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi8razf1ZH0 This particular video moved me to tears because you can see he is deeply touched by the love and warmth that he received from his Muslim brothers in Oman.
So with that said, this is an overview of my decision -part and parcel of my journey. I have been direct and have not minced my words nor my thoughts on matters that had weighed on my heart and mind for a prolonged period. I want to say that I love all Muslims, all the ‘AhlQiblah’, be you ‘Salafi‘, ‘Sufi‘, ‘Sunni‘, or ‘Shi’a‘ in your orientation. I bear no ill will towards any of you. I will always do what I can within my means to be of assistance to my Muslim brothers.
“And strive for Allah with the striving due to Him. He has chosen you and has not placed upon you in the religion any difficulty. [It is] the religion of your father, Abraham. Allah named you “Muslims” before [in former scriptures] and in this [revelation] that the Messenger will be a witness over you and you will be witnesses over the people.” (Qur’an 22:78)
“And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. And remember the favor of Allah upon you when you were enemies and He brought your hearts together and you became, by His favor, brothers. And you were on the edge of a pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may become guided.” (Qur’an 3:103)
Prima Quran 
I can safely say that this is bar none the most useful and comprehensive article I have seen for very many years for Muslims in the West (and elsewhere). It is clearly the product of many years of sincere questioning and learning. And I’m saying that as a non-Ibadi Maturidi.
This is light years ahead of the voluminous bilge that masquerades as ‘Dawah’ and ‘answering the questions of Muslims’. THIS is the kind of article that can hope to successfully address the concerns thinking Muslims (a minority in any case) should and do have. From Aqida to Fiqh he absolutely nails the concerns that assail sincere Muslims and the attacks that sincere and insincere Non-Muslims will engage in given the way Muslim bury their heads in the sand about Issues from anthropomorphism to stoning adulterers.
I didn’t know much about the Ibadi school at all but am very grateful to them on the evidence of this. I have to admit they seem much more believable and rational on issues such as the vision of God (never made sense to me) and divorce – in fact everything as far as I can see. But that aside, I think this is an indispensable article for converts and Muslims alike and I hope it is widely read and re-blogged so that people can arm themselves against valid doubts that would otherwise cause the best of us to leave the faith – since only morally and intellectually bankrupt people are convinced by the types of abysmal apologetics Muslims have to endure.
Huge thanks for this.
Bismillah ir rahman ir raheem,
As salamu ‘alikum wr wb,
Thank you very much MMMCLMRU for your very thoughtful comments. I hope that indeed it is helpful to many Allah-willing.
As regards Catholic Commentator I have responded to his/her comment.
Please keep me in your du’a.
Cheers!
Pingback: PrimaQuran on The Ibadi School | Asharis: Assemble
I wish you the best in the next phase of your journey.
You had positive view of Ibadi as I read in a post of your years ago so i am not suprised by your decision. The interesting thing is that most muslims don’t even know if anything other Shia or Sunni exists in the realm of Islam
Looking forward to your posts
As salamu ‘alikum Ammar Hassan,
Thank you for comment. I believe we will be having a Facebook group in the near future for those interested to learn about the schools position on various issues.
I do hope that more is done to get this narrative out to the masses, to create awareness and to allow them to realize that not everything is this or that.
Cheers!
Salaam alaykum my brother in Islam,
May Allah bless you and your family. I wanted to congratulate you in your decision to follow the Ibadi school of thought. I must confess that I’m new to this school and I’m quite surprised that I agree with about 90% of what it says!
I like the fact that this school strictly adheres to the Qur’an and rejects the false beliefs of the return of Jesus (AS) and the Mehdi. I also totally agree with other things such as the punishment for adultery, the punishment for apostasy, is against the idea of taqlid, and that the Quran is created.
And the other thing that really shocked me is that you said:
“Now in Oman, Shia, Sunni, and Ibadi Muslims pray together in the Masjid’.
Brother, does this place really exist??? WOW!!!
As for me brother, I know many people will disagree or even criticize me for it but I’m more of a Qur’an only muslim these days. I spent a lot of time looking into Islamic theology, figh, hadith, this scholar said this and that scholar said that! I personally found that all this stuff diverts your attention away from the Qur’an. At the end of the day, we should learn to love and tolerate each other despite the differences.
I remember having a conversation with this brother and he was saying we must be of the Ahluh Sunnah wal Jammah. I said, was prophet Muhammad (pbuh), Jesus (pbuh), and Moses (pbuh) from Ahlul Sunnah as well? He just laughed it off and changed the subject.
If we only strictly adhere to the Quran (which will never happen ofcourse), I believe it will build a bridge to bring us together. But the Ibadi school sounds very interested indeed!
Anyways, peace my brother and may Allah guide us all.
Salaam,
Abdullah
Walakum salaam wr wb, dear respected brother Abdullah!
““Now in Oman, Shia, Sunni, and Ibadi Muslims pray together in the Masjid’.
Brother, does this place really exist??? WOW!!!”
Yes this place does exist.
Kindly see the following video.
“If we only strictly adhere to the Quran (which will never happen ofcourse), I believe it will build a bridge to bring us together. But the Ibadi school sounds very interested indeed!”
Insh’Allah it will happen. It is a start, and as we can see all Qur’anist have major gaps in their arguments and leave huge openings. This is where the Sunnah and the Ijtihad has come into play.
As mentioned where I feel the Ibadi school has apart to play is
a) not looking back it is not hung up on the first Caliph of the Ummayads being an angel, or the leadership being from Ahl Bayt. It simply wants to move beyond these points.
b) not being fatalistic and hanging hope on a future salvation figure (Jesus, Mahdi).
Walakum salam wr wb, beloved brother.
Cultural Muslim, I do not feel your comment is related to the article.
Out of an entire arsenal of reasons that people leave the faith I’d have to say you choose in my humble reason some very weak reasons.
If you are happy in your journey all the best
As Salamu Alaykum
What you wrote is very interesting. But I fear that your journey will not end here. The answers to the doubts you had about certain issues might satisfy you for now. But further questioning might end in total apostasy. I would describe what you do as the easy way. You give an explanation for a problem but new problems arise because of the explanation later. The Sunnis go the hard way. The hard way hurts much. But finally the explanations are robust.
I will give you some examples.
The rejection of Jesus’ second coming brings you a big problem. Now I do not know why exactly you reject this other than it not being mentioned in the Qur’an but I know that the Tabekians reject it too. In their case the rejection is for political reasons.
The problem you get after rejecting Jesus’ second coming is that the Islamic mention of Jesus in general becomes irrelevant. The virgin birth and other miracles which are very special things also for prophets lose their context. The Quranic account of him is not in relation to his role anymore. This ultimately leads to the idea that the Qur’an has simply borrowed the story about Jesus out of some Christian sources without adding any relevant specific (from Islamic perspective) narrative to him. That is a very serious doubt against the Qur’an being of divine origin.
Another big problem is the rejection of realities about the Qur’an. Abrogration of reading of verses as well as the existence of seven variants of the Qur’an is a historical reality. Denying it leads inevitably to the rejection of the preservation of the Qur’an and thus to apostasy.
Walkum salam wr wb to those who are upon guidance from their Lord.
Rider (authubillah min dhalik) I seek protection with Allah (swt) from shaitan the rejected.
I don’t know what has brought the shaitain to play on your mind but I counsel you to trust in Allah (swt) and trust in Allah (swt) as the ultimate source of guidance.
Whom ever Allah (swt) guides no one can leave them astray and whomever Allah (swt) allows to stray no one can guide them.
You have come with a counsel of despair. Iblis comes from an Arabic etymological root which means to cause despair.
Say, “O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah . Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful.” (Holy Qur’an 39:59)
I would encourage you to be about the hope of Allah’s mercy and not given in to the insinuations of the Shaitan.
Know that no matter what you are struggling with I will do my best as a brother in Islam and as a son of Adam (as) to be there for you.
primaquran@gmail.com Insh’Allah always feel free to drop me a line.
As for everything else you said, I see it as more ranting. Clearly you have things that are disturbing your mind and your heart and so you come to this blog to rant.
You don’t come here to refute or provide refutation (you have yet to do so). You don’t come here to share knowledge or answers/refutations/discussions about the subjects discussed. You have yet to do so.
You come here to talk once again about Sheihk Atabek.
In case you do not know he (Atabek Shukurov) has a Facebook account and he is quite accessible.
“The rejection of Jesus’ second coming brings you a big problem. Now I do not know why exactly you reject this other than it not being mentioned in the Qur’an ”
I reject it because Jesus is dead. The Holy Qur’an attest to the fact that Jesus is dead. I have written refutations and unlike certain people I have given the links to the people and the articles being refuted.
“The problem you get after rejecting Jesus’ second coming is that the Islamic mention of Jesus in general becomes irrelevant. The virgin birth and other miracles which are very special things also for prophets lose their context. The Quranic account of him is not in relation to his role anymore. This ultimately leads to the idea that the Qur’an has simply borrowed the story about Jesus out of some Christian sources without adding any relevant specific (from Islamic perspective) narrative to him. That is a very serious doubt against the Qur’an being of divine origin.”
If that is how you see it. I can enjoy all the miracles of the Prophets mentioned in the Holy Qur’an without any belief in them coming back and it for me doesn’t diminish them in the least.
However, it sounds to me that you are the one struggling in that you are ready to level serious doubts about the Qur’an being of divine origin (well umm in case you haven’t notice the Qur’an doesn’t talk about Jesus returning).
May Allah (swt) protect your faith and help you in your doubts.
“The Sunnis go the hard way. The hard way hurts much. But finally the explanations are robust.”
So the more difficult something is for you the more truthful? I see.
Explanations are robust. Like the idea that stoning for adultery used to be in the Qur’an but it (the revelation) was eaten by a goat but the ruling remains.
I’m sorry this doesn’t strike me as robust , if it does for you my friend than you have with due respect very low standards.
“Another big problem is the rejection of realities about the Qur’an. Abrogration of reading of verses as well as the existence of seven variants of the Qur’an is a historical reality. Denying it leads inevitably to the rejection of the preservation of the Qur’an and thus to apostasy.”
As far as abrogation
“The vast majority of scholars have upheld the validity of naskh. Only some Shi’a and Mutazalite scholars (such as Abu Muslim Al-Isfahani, d.322 A.H.), have raised objections concerning naskh. Abu Muslim claims that, while it is not inconceivable that naskh can occur, there are no rulings to demonstrate it. However, as Ibn Al Jawzi mentioned, Abu Muslim was the first scholar to deny the validity of naskh, and in this he went against the consensus (ijma’) of all the scholars before him. (page 235 An Introduction to the Sciences of the Qur’an by Yasir Qadhi)
There you go there is a nice Salafi source for you Ryder.
As far as ‘Abu Muslim was the first scholar to deny the validity of naskh’ this is not true.
Ibn Abbas reports that Umar bin Al Khattab has said: “The best expert of the Qur’an is Ubayy and the best legal expert among us is Ali. But we ignore some of what Ubayy states because he says: “I will never abandon anything I heard from the Messenger of Allah.” yet Allah has said: “Whatever aya we nasakh (abrogate) or cause to be forgotten (nunsiha).” (Al Bukhari vol. 3 no. 4300, pg 8)
So countless Muslims have come before us and didn’t believe in abrogation and their faith is intact Al hamdulillah!
Not only that but those of you who do believe in abrogation (apparently like yourself) you can’t come to any consensus on what is or isn’t abrogated (and apparently your faith is intact).
If you read the article carefully you will see that one of the positions of the Ibadi school is that the hell fire is eternal for those Muslims who did major sins.
Do you think eternity of hell fire is easy for me to accept? It is not. However, I am forced to submit to the clear text of the Holy Qur’an and to the veracity of the arguments.
I am worried about you though. You mentioned apostasy twice and two mentions of casting aspersions on the divine origin of the Holy Qur’an.
May Allah (swt) cause us both to die as Muslims!
If you ever have anything personal you wish to discuss. I am here for you my guy. primaquran@gmail.com
A few observations:
The Ibadi school is a recognised school even if it, as it is, so often overlooked; the account given in the article as to how if differs from the other schools of thought is therefore important and useful as well as being a welcome reminder about the breadth of approaches available to the Ummah to seek out and define a coherent understanding of the Deen of Islam in the modern era. However, I cannot help feeling that many of the differences described reaffirm the position first advocated by Imam Ghazali which is best referred to as the Maqasid al-Islam (rather than the Imam’s original description as the Maqasid al-Shari’ah) or higher objectives. In particular, the fetishisation of Ijma and misuse of the Hadith literature elevating these to a status higher than or equal to the Qur’anic text has helped foster the current dalliance with legalism and legalistic modes of thought. If the Ibadi Mahthab is able to define approaches which lead to justice, freedom, human dignity and rights then this epitomises the Maqasid al-Islam and should be embraced. One word of caution though, the land where the Ibadi school flourishes comprises a monarchy which is antithetical to at least one of the Maqasid.
The punishment of stoning for adultery is not mentioned in the Qur’an (although lashing is). Khaled Abou el-Fadl makes the point that the woman who famously confessed to the act in front of the Prophet (SAW) was eventually stoned to death in line with the then (Jewish originated) law. Later in time, the Qur’anic verses revealed on the same subject modified the punishment to lashing instead. This would then explain the suggested punishment for slaves who committed adultery being half the amount (of lashes) due to their state of bondage. The punishment of lashing is still a severe one nevertheless, but surely it is intended more as a deterrence than a real penalty given the very extreme conditions required to satisfy a court the act occurred. As to apostasy, the act itself clearly does not warrant capital punishment according to any cursory reading of the Qur’an, only the aggravated form of treason etc meets the necessary degree of seriousness deserving of a death sentence. None of this should conflict with the Maqasid al-Islam in terms of ensuring the security of the life, well being and property of the general community (which I do not see as being the case).
Thank you Steven for your response.
” However, I cannot help feeling that many of the differences described reaffirm the position first advocated by Imam Ghazali which is best referred to as the Maqasid al-Islam (rather than the Imam’s original description as the Maqasid al-Shari’ah) or higher objectives. In particular, the fetishisation of Ijma and misuse of the Hadith literature elevating these to a status higher than or equal to the Qur’anic text has helped foster the current dalliance with legalism and legalistic modes of thought.”
Unfortunately as you may or may not be aware of the advocates of Ghazali and his Shafite school namely the Habib in Yemen, (Habib Omar Bin Hazif, Habibi Ali Al Jifri) or, Al-Attas, Syed Muhammad Naguib in Malaysia or Syed Farid al-Attas of NUS Singapore have done little if not anything to correct this picture.
If they have I welcome the chance to be corrected.
“The punishment of stoning for adultery is not mentioned in the Qur’an (although lashing is). Khaled Abou el-Fadl makes the point that the woman who famously confessed to the act in front of the Prophet (SAW) was eventually stoned to death in line with the then (Jewish originated) law. Later in time, the Qur’anic verses revealed on the same subject modified the punishment to lashing instead.”
The unfortunate thing is that people like Khaled Abou el-Fadl, or Dr. Fatoohi Louay, or Adnan Ibrahim are actually very small voices in a roaring ocean of Sunni dominated perspectives that overwhelmingly reject these interpretations.
Hence one of the reasons why being intellectually consistent I could not see myself remaining in the Ahl Sunnah Wal Jammah “traditional Sunni” paradigm, nor do I see how those who hold the views of Khaled Abou el-Fadl, Adnan Ibrahim or Dr. Louay Fatoohi remain in that paradigm. Allah knows best.
Than the other glaring issue is even when we read works by Mohammad Hashim Kamali he may be able to scrap and scratch and find possibly 1 or 2 dissenting views in an ocean of Sunni scholarship.
It hardly speaks to lashing for adultery, apostasy not being corporeal being the normative sunni view at all. That is because it simply isn’t.
Again as I said I wish no ill will towards either my Sunni or Shia brothers but as far as me self-identifying with the Sunni or should I say ‘majority school’ opinions , I’ll give that a pass.
Islam that truth does not fear correction or change. It is about pursuit of truth.
Islam that is empire, well it must at all cost defend it’s traditions, dogmas, scholarship , because empire cannot be challenged.
So I don’t see things in terms of the manichianism inherent in the Sunni/Shia’i view etc myself, having been exposed to both general ways of thinking as a revert of 30+ years and having read widely as well as once ascribing to one of the mainstream Muslim movements (HT). And I don’t think Allah is at all interested in whether we believe the Qur’an is His uncreated word or otherwise etc etc (since it is abundantly clear He is only interested in our Iman in Him coupled to our good intentions/actions). What me, and dare I say Prof Khaled Abou el-Fadl etc, advocate is a Maqasid al-Islam approach in general. In particular, I take a thoroughly academic approach to these matters – much like what you are advocating in Prima Qur’an – which eschews traditionalist scholarship when their views contradict logic, further better informed scholarship and clear Qur’anic evidence etc. It matters little to me whether el-Fadl and company are a small contingent in an ocean of traditionalists, theirs, like yours, are voices closer to the intent of the Creator and that is the crucial difference. After all, someone somewhere is obligated to commence the task of rectifying the abuses so clearly documented in this blog of yours, otherwise Allah will replace us with people who will do this instead of us. Therefore, overall, I fail to see where we differ except that I seem to be the more optimistic with a clearer path mapped out (Alhamdullillah and Allah knows best).
May I respectfully refer you to Mohammad Omar Farooq’s 2011 book “Toward Our Reformation” and his peer reviewed articles, in particular “In Search of the Shari’ah”, Arab Law Quarterly, 32 (2018) 315-354 to get a firmer grasp of what people in the anti-legalism, Maqasid al-Islam approach think.
As salamu ‘alikum wr wb, Thank you very much for the recommended readings. I am hopeful I will have an opportunity to read them.
“Prof Khaled Abou el-Fadl etc, advocate is a Maqasid al-Islam approach in general. In particular, I take a thoroughly academic approach to these matters – much like what you are advocating in Prima Qur’an – which eschews traditionalist scholarship when their views contradict logic, further better informed scholarship and clear Qur’anic evidence etc. ”
I really appreciate Professor Khaled Abou el-Fadl and I actually need to include a link to his website and works. That has been remiss of me.
I would have loved the opportunity to have been one of his students and learn from him.
May Allah swt continue to bless him and bless others through him.
aoa
I am sorry to say but your confusion will always exist as previous commentator mentioned . As one present scholar stated so eloquently that ” I am more comfortable with the mistakes of imam malik (ra) ,than the correction of the people of today . The second coming of isa (as) is by consensus of all the scholars barring a few heretics like your self . The aqeedah of sunni muslims is sound as stated by imama tahawi (ra) . As for the person who is quran only and rejects hadith of the messenger of allah (saw) I would like him to bring forth his evidence from the Quran only that the prayers are five or how many rakats in the prayer etc . Who is your teacher , who has given you authority to make ijtihad , can you even understand Arabic grammar .
The prophet (saw) stated that a time will come when each qualified person will consider his own opinion to be the only correct one . I have to say that we are in far worse state when even un qualified are giving opinions .
As the prophet (saw) said that whoever gives a an opinion without knowledge then let him prepare himself for the fire .
in a hadith
I am
” The second coming of isa (as) is by consensus of all the scholars barring a few heretics like your self .”
This is an intellectual forum and seeing as you present no evidence for your case such as.
1) What happened to Jesus with proofs and evidences.
2) What proofs from the Qur’an do you utilize that Jesus is alive and will return?
Instead you posted something showing your low capabilities.
No confusion here Ash. Clarity, clarity and Al hamdulillah clarity.
Also, if you would be so interested to indulge us what actually is your aqidah? Do you believe that Allah is a unified being? Do you believe that the attributes of Allah (swt) are a part of his being or not part of his being?
Do you believe that the Qur’an is eternal and if so what is your proof?
Do you believe that the mention of hands, and shin and face in the Qur’an are to be taken without discussion based upon their apparent meaning or is a form of tashbih or tawil applied?
Do you believe that you will see Allah in the afterlife?
Do you believe that the hellfire is a temporary stay for some people?
Are you Ashari, Athari, Maturdidi, Mutazali because all of these groups have just like yourself claimed the title ‘Sunni’ for themselves.
Where as you should know that Allah (swt) has sanctified and sanctioned no name other than Islam and Muslim for us as believers.
In this very post and others you have spoken against the position of stoning the married adulterer.
To the extent of my knowledge ibadis believe that the married adulterer should be stoned.
What’s your take on that?
In this very post I have stated that my position was, is and always will be ‘primaquran’ just as when I was a ‘Sunni’ ‘Maliki’ I identify with the Ibadi school more so than any other.
Can I please know why you feel that is the position in the school?
I saw it in an arabic ibadi website (sorry, my previous reply wasn’t published because of some reason.
No worries, If you have another name which you used to come to this site and troll you were probably blocked.
If you have the Ibadhi Arabic website that you have in mind please feel free to share.
However if you post an anti Ibadhi website you will have to go through the trouble of creating another account and name and try trolling from a new angle.
Cheers.
Wa ‘aleikum assalam.
No. I think it’s because the ‘direct response’ button under the notification may not work properly. I don’t remember trolling in this website with another name. I have little interest in trolling.
http://www.taddart.org/?p=44
Don’t understand this as an attack. I’ve just been reading about the issue of stoning recently.
Bismillah, my apologies if I seemed on guard. We have actually had people troll in the past.
The website you cited is an Ibadi website done by some of our brothers in Libya.
As the medium of discussion here is in English and for the benefit of the viewers would you kindly translate:
وقد قال بعض أصحابنا وبه قال قومنا أن الخوارج ينكرون الرجم والذي عندي أن هذا القول غير صحيح إلا إذا نظرنا إلى حكمهم بأن مرتكب الكبيرة مشرك حلال الدم؛ فإن الزاني عندهم يقتل ردة لا حداً وهذا متفرع عن حكمهم قطعاً لا يحتاج إلى دعوى نكران الرجم، ولكن الأمر عندي ليس كما يتوهم وإنما زعم من يزعم من قومنا أن الخوارج ينكرون الرجم فيه مغمز، لكنه يعود على الزاعمين بطامة؛ وذلك أن قومنا رووا أنه كان مما يتلى في كتاب الله في سورة الأحزاب الشيخ والشيخة إذا زنيا فارجموهما البتة نكالاً من الله والله عزيز حكيم فأكلته العنزة. فيترتب على هذه المقالة أن القرآن وقع فيه نقص والعياذ بالله، وهذه الطامة تلازمهم وإن فروا منها بزعم أن ما نسخ لفظه وبقي حكمه، ولكن أصحابنا يقولون الرجم فرض لا من القرآن ولكن من الحديث فقد روى الحافظ الحجة الإمام الربيع في صحيحه عن الإمام جابر بن زيد: (الاستنجاء والإختتان والوتر والرجم سنن واجبة) فصان الله الأصحاب من الخطل والحمد لله وصلى الله على سيدنا محمد وآله وصحبه.
أبو إسحاق إبراهيم أطفيش
أحمد بن سعود السيابي
JazakAllahu khayran.
“And certainly, some of our scholars have said, and so has said our people, that the Khawarij rejected stoning. I don’t think that to be the case, because taking into consideration their view that the major sinner is a polytheist whose blood is permissible to shed, the fornicator would be killed not as a hadd but because of his apostasy. (…) doesn’t support the claim of those who say they rejected stoning. So I think the matter isn’t as it’s thought of them. (…). Our people narrate that [stoning] was among that who was recited in God’s Book in Surah Al-Ahzab. “The old mand and the old woman, if they fornicate, stone both of them completely, as an exemplary punishment from God, and God is Glorious and Wise”, but [that aya] and was eaten up by the goat. From this it stems that the Qur’an is incomplete (God’s refuge is sought from that!) and this catastrophic statement pursues them even if they try to fly from it pretending that ‘Reciting the aya has been abrogated but it’s ruling remains’. Our scholars have said that stoning is obligatory, not because of the Qur’an but because of hadith. It has been narrated from Al-Hafiz Al-Hujja Imam Rabi’ in his “Sahih” that Imam Jabir ibn Zaid said “Rinsing the nose, male and female circumcission, witr prayer and stoning are obligatory sunnas”. (…)”
Thank you Hanafi Red, that is a very good and fair translation.
Now notice the reasoning he said that the khawarij believed in stoning for adultery?
He said because adultery is a sin and in their view every sinner is a non-believer ….thus put to death.
The flaw in this reasoning is the assumption that all people deemed unbelievers were stoned to death which is fallacious.
It’s fallacious because we know that they killed those deemed as unbelievers by any and all means available to them, easiest being simply by the sword.
The Azraqi or “Kwarij” used Quranic based ayat the punishment of the slave woman is half of a believing woman, you can’t half stoning.
Also notice they point out the very tenuous position of Sunnis, an uncompleted Quran, key evidence eaten by a goat and yet still keep the ruling!!
So than turning to the Ibadis the lone piece of evidence quoted in the Musnad it gives no context , the wording and placement is odd.
Also it goes against the overwhelming evidence against stoning for adultery, starting with Quran 24:4
As stated the Ibadi school best aligns with my own research and conclusions , but also stated my outlook was, is, and shall be primaquran.
Hope this is helpful.
Yes, I wasn’t trying to argue for stoning! I wanted to know what did you make of the ibadhi position on that. It’s good that the Qur’an remains over all independently of the nominal school afiliation.
I agree that the ظاهر of Surat Al-Nur.. is that married adulterers are lashed 100 times. The very sura was revealed in relation to the obviously married Aisha رضي الله عنها and after the aya of the lashes, the situation of the man who is the only witness of his WIFE’s adultery is mentioned, etc..
Yes absolutely.
I think that because the Ibadi school does not encourage taqlid , believes consensus can change, that they are not problematically tied up with this ruling in a way the Sunni schools are.
I believe eventually the Hanafi school can mount a serious challenge to it because the Quran is not to be abrogated by hadith in their usuli principles.
Also as we saw interestingly apparently a very proto juristic school associated with gratuitous violence (the khawarij) did not believe in it either.
All of these things certainly should have a thoughtful Muslim saying hmmmm…
Thank you very much for this invaluable article. I like people who ask questions so as to be clear with what they believe. Last three days I met with one person whom seems less knowledgeable as I. As I am Ibadhi, he asked me some questions and I replied, but finally he concluded that anyone who is not following Ahl sunna waljamaa is not a muslim. I just asked him to give a proof from Quran or Sunna but he couldn’t and he run away.
This is a stage we muslims are today, people just follow the teachings of their sheikhs without reasoning nor questions. I don’t know what is the main function of their brain actually. And if it is just following the sheikhs without questions, then what is the difference between us and christians?
Al hamdulillah I’m glad it was of benefit to you respected brother.
Salaam brothers/sisters,
I must stress again that this is a wonderful article and if I were to follow any school, it will no doubt be this one! It makes a lot of sense and is consistent with the Holy Qur’an. But then again, tell that to the blind followers of the Ahlal Sunnah Wal Jamaah (ASWJ) .
I remember this brother telling me that we must be of the ASWJ, I said to him: “Was Muhammad, Eisa, and Musa (peace be upon them) of the ASWJ as well”? He just laughed it off and changed the topic.
Salaam 🙂
Abdullah
So you do not follow any school?
Salaam
So the reason why Sunnis haven’t “made peace” with the state of israel, a state founded by religious extremists who believe it’s their God-given right to steal the land from “goyim” and who await a jewish *Messiah* to rule(not exactly through a democratic process) that same land and who have been non-stop attacking the native Arab Sunni population and neighbours since its founding, is that… Sunnis believe in a messianic figure…?
Wa Salaam
Did you get that from reading my post?! Because I’m sitting here scratching my head wondering how you could have remotely come to that conclusion.
It’s simply so bizarre and off base. I mean really.
What I said right was that it be difficult for Israel and Israeli think tanks to ultimately take Sunni overtures of peace seriously if they(the Sunni) have a notion or belief of a Messianic figure that’s simply going to commit wholesale genocide against their people right.
“What I said right was that it be difficult for Israel and Israeli think tanks to ultimately take Sunni overtures of peace seriously if they(the Sunni) have a notion or belief of a Messianic figure that’s simply going to commit wholesale genocide against their people right.”
But by this logic it’s difficult(or impossible) for any Muslim to take a christian’s or jew’s overtures of peace since they believe in a messiah that will come and commit wholesale genocide against their people. So the difficulty would remain even if all Palestinians became Ibadhi over night.
And I would think that the main reason for resistance is “justice for the Palestinians and the right to a homeland and self determination.” and not necessarily the Mahdi narrative.
Your statement in no way invalidates what I said nor does it interact with it.
We are talking about Jews (Israel) yeah and peace with their Muslim neighbors (primarily Sunni Muslim).
I also have to call out the ignorance in the statement that you have made about the Jewish concept of the Messiah.
Where did you get this idea from?
Torah?
Tanach?
Talmud?
And I also believe your missing the over all point .
My point about the Mahdi/Jesus had nothing to do with the Israel/Palestine issue.
I challenge you here and now we’re I said or even remotely suggested that we give up on the struggle of the Palestinian people.
In fact why don’t you go and read that section again, several times if need be.
“Your statement in no way invalidates what I said nor does it interact with it.”
Perhaps you’re implying a distinction between the “Palestinians” and the “Sunni world” and that you’re just addressing the latter? I don’t think that makes a lot of sense since the Palestinians are Sunni Arab neighbours to the jews so they would be included in any “peace” between Muslims(sunni) and the jews. If this is not what you’re referring to then I have no idea why you’d say that my statement doesn’t even interact with your post.
“I also have to call out the ignorance in the statement that you have made about the Jewish concept of the Messiah.”
First of all, does that mean you concede to my point about peace between christians and Muslims being impossible by your reasoning? Or do you just dismiss it as being irrelevant?
Secondly, I was referring to how the jewish messiah will rule over the land of Israel, which would include an Arab sunni population, and I hardly think the messiah will be put in charge through a democratic process in which Arabs are included…
“My point about the Mahdi/Jesus had nothing to do with the Israel/Palestine issue.”
Your point about the Mahdi/Jesus had everything to do with “peace with israel and the jews”. Every single war between Muslims and Jews in recent times have been because of the Israel/Palestine issue. How then can peace not have anything to do with it?
“I challenge you here and now we’re I said or even remotely suggested that we give up on the struggle of the Palestinian people.”
If Palestinians are completely removed from any peace process between jews and their Sunni Arab neighbours(the closest of which would be the Palestinians themselves…) then what struggle would be left? It doesn’t sound like even Palestinians are left, let alone any struggle.
Oh boy…..
Let’s just start with what I wrote in the article.
IBADI SCHOOL HAS THE BEST CHANCE TO MAKE PEACE WITH JEWS AND ISRAEL.
(It is also the school not clingy to the past or holding out for some fatalistic future).
Now before I begin my argument here let me say clearly that WE AS MUSLIMS SHOULD NEVER EVER GIVE UP THE PALESTINIAN CAUSE. WE SHOULD ALWAYS DEMAND JUSTICE FOR THE PALESTINIANS AND THE RIGHT TO A HOMELAND AND SELF DETERMINATION.
Abdullah are you trolling? You have to be because this text is clear. Again I challenge you where have I said or even remotely suggested that we give up on the struggle of the Palestinian people?
Now why would I say the Ibadi school has the best chance to make peace with Jews and Israel? I not only say that but I say the Ibadi school is the school with the most hopeful outlook for the future.
In the Ibadi school there is absolutely 100% no belief that a Mahdi will come or THAT JESUS WILL RETURN AND KILL ALL OF THE JEWS AND INSTIGATE ARMAGEDDON.
Think about it. Logically Israel is a nuclear armed power based by another super power. Already Saudi Arabia, U.A.E, Bahrain, and other states have had meetings and delegations from Israel.
AGAIN I DON”T THINK NORMALIZATION WITH ISRAEL SHOULD COME AT THE COST OF ABANDONING THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE OR THEIR CAUSE.
Again you don’t seem to see this even though it is plain. I have to wonder again if you are yet another person who comes to this website to troll. If you are trolling I am honestly not going to entertain you further.
Yet if you were an Israeli think tank and you are forced to deal with a Sunni world that has a core belief that some time in the future Jesus will show up and give your people the choice to accept Islam or die how hopeful would peace prospects be with such people?
Point #1
So if the Palestinian people all become Christian or Ibadi or Hindu does this have anything to do with them (the Palestinian) people deserving justice? Absolutely does not. They deserve justice and a homeland regardless of their religious beliefs.
Point #2
“Yet if you were an Israeli think tank and you are forced to deal with a SUNNI WORLD that has a core….”
Yes the Palestinian people are predominantly Sunni.
You can have peace with anyone even people who believe that their particular salvic figure is going to come and wipe you out in the future.
Yet as I stated above and once more here:
Yet if you were an Israeli think tank and you are forced to deal with a Sunni world that has a core belief that some time in the future Jesus will show up and give your people the choice to accept Islam or die HOW HOPEFUL WOULD PEACE PROSPECTS BE WITH SUCH PEOPLE?
I stand by that statement.
Now you want to bring in other issues like Christianity and Muslims. If you would like me to address that some time in the future I would be happy to do so insh’Allah.
However, my focus is on Israel (overwhelmingly a Jewish state) and a Sunni world view of a Jesus coming back to wipe them (the Jews) out.
Now let us revisit a statement you made.
“But by this logic it’s difficult(or impossible) for any Muslim to take a christian’s or JEW”S OVERTURES OF PEACE SINCE THEY BELIEVE IN A MESSIAH THAT WILL COME AND COMMIT WHOLESALE GENOCIDE AGAINST THEIR PEOPLE. So the difficulty would remain even if all Palestinians became Ibadhi over night.”
I asked you to show me and I am asking you again to show me from the
Torah,
TNCH
Talmud where the Jews believe that the Messiah will come and commit wholesale genocide against their people.
So you have now three choices here.
1) Admit you are not learned on this area and simply admit your error.
2) Furnish proof for this statement.
3) End your discussion on this matter.
I am saying this to you Abdullah and those who read this. I will do my best to entertain people who are interested in sincere discussion on these post.
However, I have no time for people who troll. I just don’t.
So you should know Abdullah that your future post will not be approved until you address the issue about the Jews and the Messiah and some future supposed whole genocide.
#1) Furnish proof for that claim and our discussion continues.
#2) Admit that you have no real knowledge on this subject and admit your error and the discussion continues.
#3) Your done with this discussion.
There’s no trolling from my part, you’re just bad at taking criticism, but it’s your blog and you can decide that this is not a forum for arguments so I’m not going to complain about that. Now I know for the future though that you’re not interested in being challenged. As for your “choices” then they’re flawed since there is no discussion when you refuse to adress(or even read) anything I write. So good bye.
My whole journey is one of investigation, a realization of being wrong, mistaken and not being correct. In my life I have been refuted, rebuked, proved wrong, critiqued, overruled, overturned, repudiated, debunked, etc….
and I imagine that it will continue on as such.
What I do not entertain is trolling.
So since by your own admission that you
A)Refuse to provide any evidence to suggest as you plainly stated that a Jewish Messiah would come and commit whole sale massacre.
B) Do not have such information and rather employ the virtue of humility and admit it as such (so that we can move on) you would in full vainglorious manner allow pride to get in the way.
This whole exchange is proof of me both reading and addressing everything you have posted.
I am sure the readers will find it bizarre (your statements about the Palestinians) considering what I have plainly stated and re-posted to you.
“So good bye.” And there we have it.
Well, As salamu ‘alikum to you and May Allah (swt) guide us all.
Btw ‘abdullah you might wish to watch this recent debate between Rabbi Tovia Singer and Rev Samuel Green. On “Is Jesus the Messiah” and you will see clear as day that the Jewish concept of the Messiah is that he brings peace and not war.
Also to answer your question, though it was not part of this discussion at all.
It is very difficult to make peace with a Christian nation that holds this view.
“But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them–bring them here and kill them in front of me.” (Luke 19:27)
It is just as bad as the ahadith about the slaughter of the Jews etc.
Now this does not mean that you cannot make peace with nations that have Christian majority populations but a nation that defines itself by Christianity it would be difficult to accept that you would always be in a state of peace with such a nation if they held to this view of a warlike Jesus 2.0 coming to kill all those who won’t accept him as Lord and King.
I hope that makes more sense to you and I hope that you will watch the debate.
Ramadan Mubarak to you and to your family.
I probably won’t end up watching the video, but if the gist of what you’re meaning with
“On “Is Jesus the Messiah” and you will see clear as day that the Jewish concept of the Messiah is that he brings peace and not war.”
is that the tanach doesn’t include any explicit descriptions on how many people the messiah will kill then I believe I already adressed it above when I said:
“… the jewish messiah will rule over the land of Israel, which would include an Arab sunni population, and I hardly think the messiah will be put in charge through a democratic process in which Arabs are included…”
The religious extremists that await the jewish messiah to rule their land are the same people already in charge who have created an apartheid state that exclude the native population from any relevant decisions. Why would those same religious extremists believe their messiah to be even less tolerant?
UN says they bring peace, so does USA, so does Israel, and so will jesus according to the christians, but note how “bringing peace” always involve fighting a whole lot of wars!
“Now this does not mean that you cannot make peace with nations that have Christian majority populations but a nation that defines itself by Christianity ”
Irrelevant distinction as long as that majority is the majority of a population in a democratic state that’s run by the people.
“Ramadan Mubarak to you and to your family.”
Thank you and I wish the same to you, wa ‘alayka as-salaam
If you are not bothered to see what a Jewish Rabbi has to say in a debate with a Christian nor are you willing to wrote any relevant text to support your statements than yes no need to pursue this exchange further.
I’ve already written relevant texts to support my statements, you still haven’t explained the democratic process behind Palestinian Arabs voting the jewish messiah into leadership of the jewish colonial state.
As for the debate then I’ve seen enough from jewish rabbis to know what “peace” they’re interested in.
Salaams Prima,
Is denying the coming of ‘Isa AS, Ibadi belief? Any references? I thought they accepted it.
Secondly, is it a tenet to believe in the Ibadi school that major sins take one outside the fold of Islam? Can one be Ibadi and not hold on to this belief? By this reasoning most Muslims would of left Islam because we all do major sins. Also, isn’t this line of thinking dangerous and a path to takfiri thinking?
Jazak Allah Khayr
Walakum salaam wr wb, The Ibadi school does not believe in the second coming of Christ Jesus. Sheikh Abdullah As Salmi (an Ibadi scholar) says:
“Let it be known that the Prophet has no Prophet after him. What people narrate that Christ will descend has not been heard before.”
Sheikh Nasser bin Abi Nabhan (an Ibadi scholar) says:
“Some people narrate that Allah sends the Mahdi and Anti-Christ appears. They also believe that Christ descends. All of this is far a cry from the Truth.
What we known is that Jesus is dead.”
Remind me to give you the video link of where Sheikh Ahmed Al Khalili the grand Mufti of Oman gave the lecture about Jesus not returning.
The Ibadi are far from takfir I can tell you that. They have had Sheikh Yusuf Estes, Mufti Menk (both from Salafi thinking) and Hamza Yusuf (Sufi leaning) invited them to Oman and they gave public lectures. In Oman it is not uncommon to see Sunni, Shi’a and Ibadi doing salaah in the same masjid. Contrary to what the history has told about Ibadi they have been most tolerant towards the others. Also signed on to the Amman accord.
Please watch this clip about the hadith of the 73 groups which is the hadith collection mostly used by the Ibadi and see the attitude towards other Muslims. It is far from “takfiri” respected brother.
As regards those who commit major sins , anyone who dies while in a state of doing the major sins has died in a bad state. Allah (swt) knows best that person’s fate.
Any of us doing sins, you, me or any of us are in a state of ingratitude towards Allah (swt), that is the real meaning of kufr a state of ingratitude and covering up truth and/or disregarding the blessings.
You should also know that the Ibadi school does not encourage you to do taqlid to the school but to investigate the opinions that it holds and weigh it on the merits of the evidence.
I hope that this is helpful insh’Allah, wa iyyakum.
I typed a long reply, then lost it…damn : /
Jazak Allah Khayr for your reply. I will check the video later tonight.
I do understand that Ibadis aren’t prone to takfir as a people, but I am essentially talking about their creed.
To be clear, if someone does a major sin, is his final abode Jahannam for eternity? I find that a bitter pill to swallow – we have all done major sins. Sure, dying in sin isn’t ideal, we all agree that is a bad state to be in…but to be eternally punished for it…doesn’t sit well with me.
Most of the other points you raised are actually quite strong, apart from this one and the political point.
Bismillah ir rahman ir raheem, As salamu ‘alikum wr wb, respected brother.
This is an article written by a sister who has been following this school (the Ibadi ) school since childhood and has access to the scholars.
https://bintibadh.blogspot.com/2013/08/major-sins-sincere-repentance-7.html?m=1&fbclid=IwAR1j86SZydCe2HTubp8WOIfkGx4dupKBuSWADFXWxdDrz6Z3o0sBCbd24cM
It is very serious in the manner in which sins are addressed but it was very good to point out the verses in the Qur’an that tell us that to despair of the mercy of Allah (swt) is in and of itself a sin.
Allah also says in Su’rat Yusuf (Chapter 12 Verse 87),”….. and never give up hope of Allah’s Mercy. Certainly no one despairs of Allah’s Mercy, except the people who disbelieve” (87). (Study the Noble Qur’an — Word-for-Word).
Obviously if someone is told they did a major sin and they had no way out of it, except to face eternal hellfire than that would lead to a of despair for that person.
If you also want to e-mail me personally it is primaquran@gmail.com, insh’Allah still getting you the information about the 2nd coming of Jesus.
Thank you for your patience.
I will drop an email sometime. JA! Thanks for taking the time out.
Sorry for such a delayed response!
I’m afraid I did not fully understand your reply. You are saying that major sins make you apostate, correct? I know you said that tawba is always an option, but I am specifically asking: do major sins make you kafir?
If so, lets say the majority of Muslims accepted the Ibadi school, would they not become apostates overnight? Since most Muslims do not pray 5 times a day. Missing one salah is itself a major sin, so how does anyone remain Muslim? They would constantly need to take their shahadah.
Let’s say someone sleeps without setting his alarm for fajr, and he/she dies in their sleep, then that would mean an eternity of Jahanam, right?
Thank you for your comment. It is important to note that we rely upon the revelation -the Holy Qur’an and the reports which are attributed to the Blessed Messenger for our understanding of our faith.
Everyone who is a mushrik is kafir
“Certainly they disbelieve (KAFARA) who say: Surely, Allah– He is the Messiah, son of Marium. Say: Who then could control anything as against Allah when He wished to destroy the Messiah son of Marium and his mother and all those on the earth? And Allah’s is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and what is between them; He creates what He pleases; and Allah has power over all things,” (Holy Qur’an 5:17)
But not all Kafir are Mushrik.
Now before I get into this I am going to make two assumptions about you Ameen Muhammad.
1) That you are a man.
2) That you are an Arab.
These two statements that you are a man and an Arab are things that you cannot change. They are constant states for you until the day you die.
Whereas your status as a Muslim is conditional. Every group among the Muslims believe this.
So, for example, the proof of that is if you convert to another religion you are no longer a Muslim. Agreed?
“Lo! those who believe, then disbelieve and then (again) believe, then disbelieve, and then increase in disbelief, Allah will never pardon them, nor will He guide them unto a way.” (Holy Qur’an 4:137)
So we have to ask what is the definition of the word Muslim what does it mean or entail?
“O you who believe! be careful of (your duty to) Allah with the care which is due to Him, and do not die unless you are Muslims.” (Holy Qur’an 3:102)
So we learn from these verses that a person can be a believer than a disbeliever than come back to belief than go back to disbelief.
We also learn that it is possible to die while not in a state of surrender (may Allah protect you and I from it) because the admonish is to Fear Allah, keep our duty to Allah and to die in a state of surrender (mus’limūna)
The following three ahadith are something to ponder.
“Between a man and shirk and kufr there stands his neglect of the prayer.”
(Narrated by Muslim in Kitaab al-Eemaan from Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)).
It was narrated that Buraydah ibn al-Husayb (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: ‘The covenant that distinguishes between us and them is the prayer, and whoever neglects it has disbelieved (become a kaafir).’”
The majority sect have their understanding of this and we have our understanding of it, and that is when a person willfully, abandons the prayer he/she/them are kafir. They are in a state of Kafir. We call it, “kufr ni’amah” ungratefulness to Allah (swt), covering or hiding the reality of what Allah (swt) has commanded and prohibited and enjoined upon us.
So Muslims who do major sins and persist in this without tauba are in a state of “kufr ni’amah” -they are still part of the milla of Islam, their children inherit from them. However, if these people die in such a state, without making repentance our position is clear. That person will go to hell fire-where they will neither find reprieve or escape.
“The repentance accepted by Allah is only for those who do wrong in ignorance [or carelessness] and then repent soon after. It is those to whom Allah will turn in forgiveness, and Allah is ever Knowing and Wise. The repentance accepted by Allah is only for those who do wrong in ignorance [or carelessness] and then repent soon after. It is those to whom Allah will turn in forgiveness, and Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.” (Holy Qur’an 4:17-18)
“If you avoid the major sins which you are forbidden, We will remove from you your lesser sins and admit you to a noble entrance [into Paradise].” (Holy Qur’an 4:31)
As regards the majority not praying or keeping their duty to Allah (swt) that is not your problem nor mine. We love them and hope they quickly amend their ways but our duty is to save ourselves and our family from the fire whose fuel is men and jinn, whose fuel is men and stones.
These people do not need to constantly take shahadah, taubah means what? It means to return. Return to whom? Why would you need to return if you are already in a state of surrender?
“Let’s say someone sleeps without setting his alarm for fajr, and he/she dies in their sleep, then that would mean an eternity of Jahanam, right?”
With due respect, I also wonder if you read the article because that was sent because all throughout the article from noble sister Binti Ibad are statements that when you sin you make repentance.
As regards setting the alarm and missing the prayer.
“Yahya related to me from Malik from Ibn Shihab from Sa’id ibn Al-Musayyyab that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, traveled by night on the way back from Khaybar. Towards the end of the night, he stopped for a rest and told Bilal to stay awake to keep watch for the Subh prayer. The messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and his companions slept. Bilal stayed on guard as long as was decreed for him and then he leaned against his riding camel facing the direction fo the dawn and sleep overcame him and neither he nor the Messenger of Allah nor any of the party woke up until the sun’s rays struck them. The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, was alarmed. Bilal excused himself saying, “Messenger of Allah! The one who took yourself was the One who took me.” The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, ordered the party to move on and so they roused their mounts and rode on a short distance. The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, ordered Bilal to give the iqama and then led them in the Subh prayer. When he had finished he said, “A person who forgets a prayer should pray it when he remembers. Allah the Blessed and Exalted says in His book, “Establish the prayer to remember Me.” (Al Muwatta of Imam Malik ibn Anas as translated by Aisha Abdurrahman Bewley page 6)
But Muslims who neglect the prayers from simple laziness or no desire, you have to ask yourself what actually is a Muslim?
So anyone who dies from doing major sins and does not repent from them goes to Jahanam for all eternity. That is correct.
I mean if you think about the major sins they are not things that are altogether to difficult to avoid.
Like do you personally find it difficult not to kill people?
Do you have some overwhelming desire to worship idols and associate partners with Allah (swt)?
Do you feel it’s absolutely necessary to cheat on your husband/wife when divorce is open to you?
The prayer takes discipline, but at the end of the day, it’s roughly 5 minutes (25 minutes) out of a 24 hour period.
You can perform it sitting down, lying on your side, you can combine prayers when traveling, shorten it during fear and so forth.
Now let me ask you Ameen Muhammad. What do you think should be the case for the Muslim who says, “I know killing people is wrong but I’ll do it anyway.” “I know drinking alcohol is forbidden, and extramarital affairs are wrong but I’ll do them anyway”
So simple lip service and acknowledging that its a sin and yet continuing to revel it in it the hallmark of a Muslim? What is this based on?
Likewise, what are your thoughts on hell? Do you have proof from the Holy Qur’an that says that hell is a temporary vacation for the purification of sins? Is there any proof of this?
Hope this was helpful.
assalam o alaikum brother
Walakum Salam wrwb
Brother Plzz tell me about Ibadi view on Hadith e Qirtas and Hadith of Ghader e Khum
You should find information under the
‘Answering Shi’a’ section.
ماشاءالله One of the best articles I have read about ahl lul istiqamah
Al hamdulillah!
What is the Ibadi view on Tawassul, Shifa and istighatha?
It is generally frowned upon as blameworthy innovation. I now that people have their defense of the practice. I am simply telling you the position.
Hello brother
I’m a Muslim who is passing by a period of very serious doubts
Is there a way to contact you in private?
If you want to respond with your e-mail (which I will not publish) I will try and contact you when I can insh’Allah. May Allah (swt) make it easy on all of us.
Could you please write an article on how authentic the Musnad of al Rabi ibn Habib is according to research scholars of the past. Shukran
InshAllah. Please make du’a that I have the time and resources to do so.
You maybe interested in: https://primaquran.com/2022/02/06/jabir-bin-zaid-not-ibadi-imam-al-rabi-ibn-habib-unknown-the-musnad-of-imam-al-rabii-falsified/
Salaam
Some ibaadi sources say that repentence and acceptance from Allah the Almighty can forgive major sins. Is this the case ?
Allah the Almighty, in the Qur’an does say he forgives all sins, he is the Most MERCIFUL and therefore all hope should be put in him. Tawba is a pure gift from Allah and those who turn in repentence to Allah after he turns to them can only assume how forgiveness will mean good things.
Peace brother I loved the read.
Walakum salam wrwb. Dear noble brother that is correct. All we need to do is sincere tawba, turn to Allah and ask forgiveness.
Hi Prima Quran,
Your article is great but there are missing things in your article. Had you
added it then it would be very nice. I want to know the origin and
roots of Ibadism. I heard that it originated from Khawarijis who was
very intolerant, violent and would regard sinful Muslim as non-Muslim.
Second thing; Although Ibadism appears better than traditional Sunnis
and Shiites but associating to any sect of Muslims is
prohibited by Quran. See following Quranic Ayaat,
Labelling oneself with any sect like Sunni, Shiites, Sufis, Ibadis,….,many
more, is not correct.
[6:159] Those who divide themselves into sects do not belong with you.
Their judgment rests with GOD, then He will inform them of everything
they had done.
[30:31] You shall submit to Him, reverence Him, observe the Contact
Prayers (Salat), and – whatever you do – do not ever fall into idol
worship.
[30:32] (Do not fall in idol worship,) like those who divide their
religion into sects; each party rejoicing with what they have.
[42:14] Ironically, they broke up into sects only after the knowledge
had come to them, due to jealousy and resentment among themselves. If
it were not for a predetermined decision from your Lord to respite
them for a definite interim, they would have been judged immediately.
Indeed, the later generations who inherited the scripture are full of
doubts.
I appreciate your feedback. I feel that you may have missed the intention of this article. The article was my own reasons on why I follow this approach to the Qur’an and Sunnah.
It was not to delve into the history of the Ibadi school. You may find useful information here: https://primaquran.com/2022/03/26/ahl-haqq-wal-istiqama-resource-page/
Yes, in the Qur’an Allah (swt) has clearly warned us against sectarianism.
Then We will surely extract from every sect those of them who were worst against the Most Merciful in insolence. (Qur’an 19:69)
So for example we those from Ahl Haqq Wal Istqamah are quite fine to do away with those terms altogether, its just that they have become part of the historical reality that allows for context.
This becomes important to actually understand what is a sect.
Often what people may term or deem a sect is more an interpretation or approach to the Qur’an and Sunnah.
I appreciate your reply but I did not understand two lines of your reply that I pasted in the following.
“Often what people may term or deem a sect is more an interpretation or approach to the Qur’an and Sunnah.”
Just two quick points really.
1. What actually is a sect? How is a sect defined.
2. The fact that the Qur’an itself the same derivative of the word often translated into English as ‘sect’ in a non pejorative manner and in a pejorative manner.
Hope this helps.
I am just going to address the “Kafa’ah” section of this article, I really think you are throwing the baby out with the bath water on this matter.
For example, there is much more nuance than you have given him credit for in Ibn Taymiyyah (ra)’s views, besides the difference between general and individual superiority that I don’t think you have grasped.
Here is a quote from the very same book you quoted from:
والفضل إنما هو بالأسماء المحمودة في الكتاب والسنة مثل الإسلام والإيمان والبر والتقوى والعلم والعمل الصالح والإحسان ونحو ذلك لا بمجرد كون الإنسان عربيا أو عجميا أو أسود أو أبيض ولا بكونه قرويا أو بدويا
‘Favor’ is only in accordance with praiseworthy terms in the Book and the Sunnah, such as Islam, faith, benevolence, righteousness, knowledge, righteous deeds, spiritual excellence, and so on. It is not merely because of a human existing as an Arab or foreigner, or with black skin or white skin, or residing in the city or the countryside.
Source: Iqtiḍā’ al-Ṣirāṭ al-Mustaqīm 1/415
Hardly the words of a racial supremacist, I think you’d agree. Quite the opposite, actually, and to be saying this 900 years ago is impressive.
There are also descendants of the Prophet sallalahu alayhi wa salam today that are black, asian, arab, perhaps even white! Seeing as how Kafa’ah proponents place this lineage as the most honourable one, a black sayyid would have superior lineage to a non sayyid Arab, dispelling the racial supremacy theory you espouse.
If Kafa’ah still seems to be against the Quran and Sunnah to you, why not take the position of Ahlus Sunnah scholars such as al-Thawri, al-Basri, al-Kharkhi, Imam Malik and the position of his entire Madhab. There is no need to leave ASJW/Sunnism entirely over this one non-issue!
I hope this helped
Wassalamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu
I can appreciate that you went after the section that you felt was the most easiest to tackle. Al hamdulilah.
“If Kafa’ah still seems to be against the Quran and Sunnah to you, why not take the position of Ahlus Sunnah scholars such as al-Thawri, al-Basri, al-Kharkhi, Imam Malik and the position of his entire Madhab. There is no need to leave ASJW/Sunnism entirely over this one non-issue.”
Unfortunately al-Thawri, and his school are no longer extant. Furthermore, if you going to quote Ibn Taymiyah for the readers one wonders why you won’t qoute the positions of al-Thawri, al-Basri, and as far as al-Kharkhi if he was a Sufi I would have a very challenging time thinking that he did’t believe in some type of super heirarchal lineage based structure.
After all, Sufis much like the Shi’a belief in the superiority of the family of the Blessed Messenger (saw) simply because they are his family. Where as I thought it was common knowledge that Ahl Sunnah put Abu Bakr, than Umar, than Uthman and than Ali in terms of over all merits.
Though I am sure we can dig through the books (especially before ahl sunnah was crystalized) and find dissenting opinons here.
Nonetheless, I am willing to excise that section of the article. It wouldn’t change my decision at all. Of course I find the Hanafi school to be more in line with the verse of Allah “The most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the one with the most taqwa” this verse is very clear.
But you see once we start admitting pro alid, and sufi sentiments of ahl bayt to frame the picture the vision becomes blurred.
“There are also descendants of the Prophet sallalahu alayhi wa salam today that are black, asian, arab, perhaps even white! Seeing as how Kafa’ah proponents place this lineage as the most honourable one, a black sayyid would have superior lineage to a non sayyid Arab, dispelling the racial supremacy theory you espouse.”
Of course there are! Through the men marrying the women of black, asian and others. I am in Singapore where this system has brought a great deal of harm to many Sharifa women because sticking to their school they dare not marry a non Arab and especially one who is not sayyid. Would have loved to have been a fly on the wall in those households where those men announced they were
marrying an asian, black, or white.
On this point there is no need for either of us to be coy. We know full well what happens in cross racial marriages in many Muslim communities let alone those who are trying to guard some supposedly supeior lineage. In fact this particular situaion was so bad that a sharifa arab lady in Singapore who married a quite well known da’ee who studied in Hadramaut, and taught at Zaytuna with Shaykh Hamza Yusuf, well this created such a stir to the point both of them (the female descedant of the Blessed Messenger) and this public orator and calling to the deen left Islam over it!
At least for me I changed schools, and this issue is a minor issue compared to the others.
If you read through my website you will see I am not a propopnent of egalitarianism. I have made that abundantly clear. Yet there is nothing from the Qur’an that even remotely teaches that a person is superior before Allah (swt) based upon lineage.
To save you time from making points/arguments that I may have already addressed you may wish to read: https://primaquran.com/2018/04/18/aftab-malik-and-the-promotion-of-arab-racial-superiority-in-islam/
You may also wish to read: https://primaquran.com/2016/12/08/are-arabs-superior-to-malays-and-everyone-else-imam-shafii-and-ibn-taymiyya-think-so/
“When the Angels prostrated to Adam, upon whom be peace, were they worshiping him? Indeed, they were obeying Allah, and recognizing and acknowledging the superior knowledge bestowed upon him. It was Iblis who did not recognize nor acknowledge Adam’s superior nature.” (Page 17 The Broken Chain)
A very sinister if not useful interpretation that could be used to ill effect. To equate those who do not recognize the superiority of others as being equal to Iblis could be used to quite ill effect.
“Allah Himself mentions that He does not burden a soul more than it can bear which reveals that even souls themselves are not equal in their capacity.”
“Adab refers to the right and proper place of things-a loss of it would result in an inability to recognize and acknowledge that there are degrees and levels of righteousness and knowledge, which in itself would result in an improper self-appointed rank. In respect to the individual, the confusion that exist around adab and knowledge allows the society to breed an overwhelming sort of individualism; he thinks himself equal to others-when in fact they are superior to him. He thinks he knows, when in fact, he knows not his relation to others.” (Pg 18 The Broken Chain)
Aftab reveals to us that “not even the souls themselves are equal” I cringe at the thought of a Hindu polemicist using such statements to devastating effect against Muslims.
So much for Muslim arguments against the caste system! RIP!
I am thankful that Allah (swt) has directed you here. Please know that we have WhatsApp groups in English and Arabic with access to our Shaykhs and scholars. So if you ever wish to learn more ahlan!
Like most muslims in my country, Indonesia, I was a Sunni. But then, I felt uncomfortable with ahl sunnah wal jama’ah beliefs/dogmas (especially about predestination), so I searched for another alternatives, such as mu’tazilah, syiah, Quranist, etc. I just heard about Ibadi only a few months ago, and I’m interested in this sect. Unfortunately, there’s only very few sources about Ibadi in my country. Could you please inform me more about ibadi, particularly about the prayer, the reading/reciting before/during the prayer such as iftitah, ruku’, sujud, and tahiyat. (I watched in youtube how Ibadi prayer in Oman, unfortunately, I can only hear the takbir, fatihah, and salam, but I dont know about the reading during sujud, ruku, tahiyat etc). Is there any book in English about Ibadi? (I only have one book about Ibadi that I bought from amazon that was written by western scholar, and I still need more information about Ibadi)
As salamu ‘alikum wr wb, you may e-mail me at jasonatreides11@gmail.com We have a WhatsApp group and you are welcome to join insh’Allah.
We also have this resource page: https://primaquran.com/2022/03/26/ahl-haqq-wal-istiqama-resource-page/
thank you so much for your information, shukran. I just downloaded the book about Ibadi prayer from link above, and i think i ‘ve found what i’m looking for. I’m still reading the book though.
Most welcome noble brother.
Assalam o alaikum WR BR
I must say that i have never gone thru such article. Please tell me the names of authentic ahadith books in ibadi school. Are they available in english?
walakum salaam warahmatullah wabaraktuh dear brother. If you speak Arabic insh’Allah I can recommend to you the books in Arabic and provide the links?
As far as the English language our books of hadith have not been translated fully into English as of yet.