The Qur’an -like the Bible does not set down the age for marriage.
“And those who no longer expect menstruation among your women-if you doubt, then their period is three months, and those who have not menstruated. And for those who are pregnant, their term is until they give birth. And whoever fears Allah-He will make for him of this matter ease.” (Qur’an 65:4)
This verse can be used to suggest that a person can marry a girl who has not even had menses. In science one of these terms is called: Amenorrhea.
As long as there is ovulation a woman can still get pregnant.
Again the Qur’an does not give a definite age requirement. It simply gives some guidelines.
For example:
“Test well the orphans, until they reach the age of marrying; then, if you perceive in them right judgment, deliver to them their property; consume it not wastefully and hastily ere they are grown. If any man is rich, let him be abstinent; if poor, let him consume in reason. And when you deliver to them their property, take witnesses over them; God suffices for a reckoner.”(Qur’an 65:4)
I used to be inclined towards a Quranite -who goes by the pseudonym ‘Joseph Islam’ to believe that the above text was strong proof not to marry what we would in modern times ‘very young females’. However, I realize that his analysis of this text was not sound.
This text says nothing about the age of marrying any female. It is simply stating that their property will be held in trust until two things happen.
A] Is that that the female is married. Says absolutely nothing about what age would be appropriate for marriage.
B] That this female can have her property delivered to her when you ‘perceive in them right judgment’.
People try and make what they perceive to be a logical jump by surmising that if one has to be ‘right judgment’ to take ownership of property implying somehow a female who is a ‘teenager’ or ‘young adult’ would also need to be in ‘right judgment’ to bare children.
Well according to the designer Allah -who knows best- that is not the case. Insh’Allah I will discuss this further down the article in the section on analyzing this through evolution.
The following verse dispels any idea that Joseph Islam or others may have about females needing to be in ‘right judgment’ to bare children.
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend from their means on them.” (Qur’an 4:34)
Also, notice something else about the text above in the “let him consume in reason” -maybe a poor man who has taken in orphans that he has a right over some of their property/wealth in reason. It does not specify any amount. This is delegated to an authority outside of the Qur’an. If there is any dispute an arbiter or legal authority will be brought in.
I love brother Sabeel and his gentle character. (I pray that Allah continues to bless and support him.) This video I feel was a missed opportunity to both capitalize and educate Christians on a fundamental point that they constantly use to assail the Blessed Messenger (saw)
Now notice that this man is quite combative. His body language, invading personal space everything about him is combative. He is trying to corner this Muslim brother Sabeel Ahmed over the age of Ayesha (r.a)
Sabeel Ahmed is of course of those Muslims who are apologists who often don’t state plainly their view on something. Now notice that at 14:30 the whole flow of this exchange completely changes for a moment. Once the man made the mistake of saying ‘according to this book (the Bible) marriage to a child is wrong’ Sabeel asked him simply to show him where this is stated? Show him one verse. The man IMMEDIATELY disengaged eye contact and turned towards the other man.
Sabeel Ahmed (May Allah bless him for his efforts) did not do two things here
1) He didn’t stay focused on that point! 16 minutes of intense discussion and he let that man right off the hook. If he could get the man to admit that the Bible does not give an age for marriage he could have:
2) Ask the man on what basis does he object?
SCIENCE / EVOLUTION -on what AGE is appropriate for a female to bear children.
“That was the law of Allah in the case of those who lived before and there will never be any change in the law of Allah.” (Qur’an 33:63)
So whatever comes about that is also corroborated with science is something that Allah has decreed. I think there is no Muslim who would dispute this.
https://www.webmd.com/children/children-no-period-15#1
The opening article says:
“Girls usually get their first menstrual period when they’re 12 or 13. It’s a sign that your body is maturing, so that one day if you want to, you should be able to have a baby.”
So for all the Atheist and Agnostics and those who decry there is no objective morality and yet attack Islamic oral traditions that ascribe to the Blessed Messenger-saw, that he married a female at a very young age it should be noted that mother nature has determined that the moment a female has menses and produces eggs -she can have a baby.
There is no one that can dispute this.
That means that if we completely remove religion from the picture, mother nature-aka-evolution has decreed that a human female is viable to propagate her species at a certain age range.
It has nothing to with education, it has nothing to do with mental capacity and everything to do with her ability to have children.
So the Qur’an does not give any particular requirements or age. This is left up to good common sense, and what is appropriate from one culture to the other.
I have even had conversations with fellow Americans on the appropriate age for people to be together and they were all over the map.
However, what I did find interesting is that among progressive /liberal types in the United States all types of couple arrangements are acceptable such as LGBT, people who are swingers, or share their partners, etc.
Yet, they really do frown upon age disparity. Whereas in Asia I have seen and witnessed very often 10 and 15 year age gaps between couples.
So there is wisdom in the Qur’an leaving these matters to time/location/custom/culture.
And Allah knows best.
Prima Quran 
Salaam alaykum akhi,
May Allah (SWT) bless you and your family.
First of all, I would like to say that I agree with you when you say the Qur’an does not set down an age for marriage. However, there are several things that need to be considered carefully in the Qur’an. The Verse you quoted reads:
And those who no longer expect menstruation among your women – if you doubt, then their period is three months, and [also for] those who have not menstruated. And for those who are pregnant, their term is until they give birth. And whoever fears Allah – He will make for him of his matter ease. {Qur’an 65:4}
An important thing to note is that the chapter starts off by saying: “O Prophet, when you [Muslims] divorce women (An-Nisaa)”. It says WOMEN and not Jariyah (young girls)! Even the Verse quoted above says “menstruation among your WOMEN (Nisaa)” and you made an excellent observation akhi when you mentioned the term Amenorrhea in reference to where the Verse says” and [also for] those who have not menstruated”. Amenorrhea is a medical condition which has 2 types:
– Primary Amenorrhea: mentrual periods have never begun (by age 16).
– Secondary Amenorrhea: the absence of menstrual periods for three consecutive months or a time period of more than six months in WOMEN WHO WAS PREVIOUSLY MENSTRUATING.
So, as you can see akhi the Verse is not talking about pre-menstrual little girls at all as the traditionalists want us to believe. Some women have this condition where their period stops for a significant amount of time so Allah (SWT) is addressing us on how to get around this if we were to divorce our women.
I understand perfectly well akhi that a girl who has reached the age of puberty (having menstrual cycles) is capable of having babies. However, are they ready psychologically and is this really what the Qur’an is saying? The Verse you quoted reads:
And test the orphans [in their abilities] until they reach marriageable age. Then if you perceive in them sound judgement, release their property to them. And do not consume it excessively and quickly, [anticipating] that they will grow up. And whoever, [when acting as guardian], is self-sufficient should refrain [from taking a fee]; and whoever is poor – let him take according to what is acceptable. Then when you release their property to them, bring witnesses upon them. And sufficient is Allah as Accountant. {Qur’an 4:6}
Notice that the chapter (Surah An-Nisaa) begins by mentioning the properties of orphans and also mentions MARRIAGE (Nikah). So, these Verses have a context of marriage and it says to test the orphans until they reach marriageable age (annikaha). THEN IF YOU PERCEIVE SOUND JUDGMENT (Rushdan) , release their property to them. Notice the word ‘rushdan’ which appears in several other Verses in The Quran as well. For example:
Moses said to him, “May I follow you on [the condition] that you teach me from what you have been taught of sound judgement (Rushda)?” {Qur’an 18:66}
And We had certainly given Abraham his sound judgement (rushdahu) before, and We were of him well-Knowing. {Qur’an 21:51}
As you can see, Prophet Moses (AS) is asking the one sent to him (traditionally known as Khidr) to teach him what he was taught of sound judgment. Also, the 2nd Verse says that Ibrahim (AS) was given sound judgment by Allah. This word has the following meanings:
– led aright
– the right
– (in the) right way
– (in the) right path
– sound judgment
– right-minded
See the link – http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=r$d
It would be very strange to suggest that these orphans are ready for marriage even though they’re incapable of managing their properties! How would they manage a marriage commitment if they’re incapable of managing their properties? Therefore, being at a marriageable age (Nikah) is dependent or linked together with having sound judgement (rushdan)! Because obviously, someone could reach puberty, and yet still be very immature can’t they?
Another thing to ponder over is in the SAME CHAPTER (it’s no coincidence) that Allah (SWT) describes marriage as a solemn covenant:
And how could you take it while you have gone in unto each other and they have taken from you a solemn covenant? {4:21}. Notice the arabic words ‘meethaqan ghaleetha’ and the SAME WORDS are used to describe the solemn covenant Allah took with The Prophets. Take a look:
And [mention, O Muhammad], when We took from the prophets their covenant and from you and from Noah and Abraham and Moses and Jesus, the son of Mary; and We took from them a solemn covenant (meethaqan ghaleetha). {33:7}.
You can see how SERIOUS a marriage commitment is so how can a girl who’s reached puberty and hasn’t yet attained sound judgment be ready for it? Now, let the traditionalists answer this:
– Would YOU marry a 6 year old?
– or a 9 year old yourself??
– Would you even marry off your 6 or 9 year old daughter to an older man??? Think about this man!!
But according to their Sahih hadeeths, Aisha was married (NIKAH) when she was 6:
Narrated `Aisha:
that the Prophet (ﷺ) married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
https://sunnah.com/bukhari/67/69
Have you ever asked yourself, how is NIKAH possible with a 6 year old??? Did Aisha know what was going on? Did she consent? The traditionalist plays with gymnastics and says “oh, but it wasn’t consummated until she was 9. The fact of the matter is, she was MARRIED at 6 making her a CHILD! How the hell can you defend this???
I remember I was at a family gathering and this adorable little girl came next to me and started playing. I asked her name and hold old she was. She said she was 6 and I stood there for a second thinking about this hadeeth. I said, how can anyone in their right mind marry a girl of this age??? These hadeeths are nonsense and insult the noble character of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (AS).
According to the following hadeeth, Aisha didn’t even know what was going on! Take a look:
Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet (ﷺ) engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, “Best wishes and Allah’s Blessing and a good luck.” Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah’s Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.
https://sunnah.com/bukhari/63/120
Notice that it says she (Aisha) didn’t know what her mother was doing with her! It also says: “Unexpectedly Allah’s Apostle came to me” so she didn’t know what was going on! Isn’t marriage consensual? And how do you get the consent of a 6 year old? Even at the age of 9, it appears that Aisha wasn’t aware of the situation. How the hell can you defend this???
How can you convince yourself and even to non Muslims that marriage with children is OK? This is utterly disgraceful and unacceptable regardless of the time. We can simply brush this off and say it was a long time ago and that was the norm back then. But isn’t Prophet Muhammad (AS) a role model for us until Yawmul Qiyamah? Aren’t we to follow his SUNNAH? Should we also be marrying underage girls???
Wake up Oh Muslims and throw these nonsensical and ridiculous (Lahwal Hadeeths) stories into the bin! And let us come back to the Book of Allah which makes things CLEAR! Alahmdullillahi Rabbil-Aalameen.
Take care akhi and and God bless!
Salaam,
Abdullah
Dear readers, “Abdullah” is a part of a movement that has broke away from Islam and they form their own religion known as the Quranites. They are a federation of a sects that believe many different things.
Some of them believe in a prophet after the Blessed Messenger, the Prophet Muhammed saw.
Some of them like Sam Gerrans believe that the world is flat and that this is what the Qur’an teaches us.
This particular individual I have not interacted with in some time and in my response you will see why.
First let us deal with the emotives. The emotional outburst.
“Have you ever asked yourself, how is NIKAH possible with a 6 year old??? Did Aisha know what was going on? Did she consent? The traditionalist plays with gymnastics and says “oh, but it wasn’t consummated until she was 9. The fact of the matter is, she was MARRIED at 6 making her a CHILD! How the hell can you defend this???”
What do you say to the emotives?
Next this person superimposes a meaning upon the text. Again using the frame of reference of the upbringing in the 21 century.
“An important thing to note is that the chapter starts off by saying: “O Prophet, when you [Muslims] divorce women (An-Nisaa)”. It says WOMEN and not Jariyah (young girls)! Even the Verse quoted above says “menstruation among your WOMEN (Nisaa)”
Yet you notice what “Abdullah” doesn’t do?
“Abdullah” doesn’t tell us what is it that distinguishes a female that is imraa and a female that is jariyah.
Yet the Qur’an is not silent on this.
“And those who no longer expect menstruation among your women – if you doubt, then their period is three months, and [also for] those who have not menstruated. And for those who are pregnant, their term is until they give birth. And whoever fears Allah – He will make for him of his matter ease. {Qur’an 65:4}
Menstration is what distinguishes a female that is a Nisa – and a female that is jariyah.
Notice also that “Abdullah” absolutely concedes this point in what he thinks is a refutation of what is put.
Read carefully:
“Primary Amenorrhea: mentrual periods have never begun (by age 16).
Secondary Amenorrhea: the absence of menstrual periods for three consecutive months or a time period of more than six months in WOMEN WHO WAS PREVIOUSLY MENSTRUATING” < Very Good.
"Women who was previously menstrating" and if she was menstrating she was according to "Abdullah" a WOMAN and not as "Abdullah" says, a "little girl".
Now one thing that I will give "Abdullah" and the person that goes by the psuedonymn "Joseph Islam" the benefit of the doubt concerning is that I do believe that they believe in Allah.
So remember it is Allah that decreed that WOMEN start ovulating at 11 and 12 and can conceive a baby.
Now I'm sure that both "Abdullah" and "Joseph Islam" believe that Allah swt in his infinite wisdom could have a female ovulate when she is 16 solar years or 16 lunar years, or 21 lunar years or 21 solar years. Yet, it is not decreed as such.
In fact since we all like science let' s take a look at what the following says:
https://www.livescience.com/33170-youngest-age-give-birth-pregnancy.html
This live science article ask what is the youngest age that a WOMAN can give birth.
The article says:
"A WOMAN can get pregnant and have a baby as soon as she begins ovulating, or producing eggs. This typically occurs about a year after they first begin menstruating, which for North American WOMEN, usually happens between the ages of 11 and 12. Some WOMEN start ovulating late, though, and others, extremely early. The early onset of menstration is called "precocious puberty."
The other thing that "Abdullah" did which is honestly quite tiring is completely ignore my article.
He goes on to talk about property distrubition and "sound judgement" as if I didn't already address that.
It is things like that that are blatant and obvious.
All that "Abdullah" does here is parrot the arguments of "Joseph Islam" as I mentioned, I once thought his arguments held weight and upon further reflection I realize that it crumble easily.
For reference these are the articles written by Quranist "Joseph Islam" here:
http://quransmessage.com/articles/ayesha%20age%20FM3.htm
Notice how "Joseph Islam" peppers the title of the article:
WAS AYESHA REALLY A CHILD BRIDE? – MARRIAGEABLE AGE FROM THE QURAN
A CHILD BRIDE…. where does "Joseph Islam" get this extra Quranic terminology from?
As well as here:
http://quransmessage.com/articles/verse%2065-4%20FM3.htm
Again another emotive extra Quranic terminogy in the title:
"DOES VERSE 65:4 PROVIDE CONSENT TO CONSUMMATE A MARRIAGE WITH A FEMALE MINOR?"
"FEMALE MINOR"
However, Al hamdulillah, even "Abdullah" had to admit to the truth in the very opening.
"First of all, I would like to say that I agree with you when you say the Qur’an does not set down an age for marriage."
What more does one need to say?
There are those of us who submit to the authority of what Allah has sent down in the Qur'an.
Than there are those of us who use 21 century definitions of adolescent, adult, and so forth to dictate what is appropriate for all cultures.
May Allah swt guide us all to what is beloved to Allah swt.
Salaam alaykum akhi,
May Allah (SWT) bless you and your family.
I hope you are in good health akhi especially during this Corona outbreak and I pray that Allah protects us all.
You said:
“They are a federation of a sects that believe many different things.”
Wow! And the Traditionists don’t? The Traditionists all believe the same thing do they akhi? So, there is no such thing as Sunni’s/Shia/Hanifi’s/Maliki’s/Shafi’s/Hanbali’s/Ash’ari’s/Athari’s/Sufi’s/Salafi’s/Ahlul-Hadeeth/etc? They all believe that the attributes of Allah (SWT) are literal (Dhahir) vs Metaphoral (Majazi)? They all agree upon how many Verses of the Qur’an were abrogated (Naskh)? Is the Qur’an Eternal or not? The list goes on!
Come on bro! You’ll have to do better than that. Personally, I don’t know anything about this person called Rashid Khalifa and his number 19 business. I’m not interested, nor do I care about them. What matters to me is what Allah (SWT) sent down to his Messenger. I believe what the Messenger believes which is summed up here:
The Messenger has believed in what was revealed to him from his Lord, and [so have] the believers. All of them have believed in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers, [saying], “We make no distinction between any of His messengers.” And they say, “We hear and we obey. [We seek] Your forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the [final] destination.” {2:285}
Brother, I agree with you when you said:
“Menstruation is what distinguishes a female that is a Nisa – and a female that is jariyah”.
Maybe I wasn’t clear enough on this point. To me, a “little girl” or “young girl” is a pre-menstruating child. And the Qur’an makes it clear that you can only marry menstruating girls (Nisaa) AND have sound judgement (rushdan) – Verse 4:6. Allah (SWT) wouldn’t mention these 2 things together for no reason!
Yes, these girls are biologically ready to bear children once they start ovulating, but does it mean they’re ready for a MARRIAGE commitment which Allah (SWT) refers to as a Solemn Covenant (Verse 4:21)? Bring all the Verses together and think about this akhi! It’s like looking at a young boy who’s just reached the age of puberty at 12 and saying: Come on little man, we’re marching into battle!!! Surely, puberty alone cannot have a person ready for a marriage commitment. That is why the word RUSHDAN is mentioned in the Verse which translates to:
– led aright
– the right
– (in the) right way
– (in the) right path
– sound judgment
– right-minded
This is what the Qur’an says, but the Sahih Hadeeths tell a different story. They say Prophet Muhammad (AS) violated the Quran! Take a look yourself:
Narrated `Aisha:
that the Prophet (ﷺ) married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
https://sunnah.com/bukhari/67/69
How is this in line with the Quranic narrative?? You still haven’t answered these questions regarding the magnificent Sahih Hadeeths! I’ll ask you the same question again akhi:
how is NIKAH possible with a 6 year old???
Was Aisha at the age of 6 obligated to perform Salah and pay Zakah?? Then how is she ready for NIKAH??
Prophet Muhammad (AS) wouldn’t dare violate that which was sent down to him so these hadeeths are obviously bogus!
You said:
“There are those of us who submit to the authority of what Allah has sent down in the Qur’an”.
Exactly akhi! That’s what we’re doing! We take all the Verses and understand them in the right context. We don’t take a verse or 2 and throw in 50 hadeeths to try to explain it. SubhanAllah! Allah Himself gives the BEST explanations in His Book:
And they do not come to you with an argument except that We bring you the truth and the best explanation (Ahsana Tafseera). {Qur’an 25:33}
May Allah bless you.
Salaam,
Abdullah
Thank you Abdullah for your response.
I believe what you brought was all that you had and there is nothing further to be added from you side in this.
Your comments are here and made public for all to look at and weigh the merits of.
You bring nothing new and just keep repeating the same assertions and it can be seen from the readers that you have both back tracked and corrected assertions you previously made.
Al hamdullillah.
I would caution you to take the words of Allah swt seriously and to not interpolate meaning into the text and to fear Allah, who is strict to take into account.
One such example is what you did in your reply above.
“Maybe I wasn’t clear enough on this point. To me, a “little girl” or “young girl” is a pre-menstruating child. And the Qur’an makes it clear that you can only marry menstruating girls (Nisaa) AND have sound judgement (rushdan) – Verse 4:6. Allah (SWT) wouldn’t mention these 2 things together for no reason!”
This for example I would tel you to FEAR ALLAH.
Fear Allah “Abdullah” the text says no such thing. The text does not say, “You can marry girls that have menstrating AND have sound judgement.” You have interpolated against the word or Allah swt and if you do not repent of it a painful chastisement will await you.
I say that only because of my concern for you as a human being.
The text in fact is not even speaking of marriage as it is speaking of the property of orphans.
Infact you claim to want to talk about context and yet you interpolate your 21 century readings into the text. Astaghfirullah.
For example: Let us look at context.
The whole of the context is distribution of property among orpans and family members.
Examples abound:
And give to the orphans their properties and do not substitute the defective [of your own] for the good [of theirs]. And do not consume their properties into your own. Indeed, that is ever a great sin.-Holy Qur’an 4:2
And if you fear that you will not deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry those that please you of [other] women, two or three or four. But if you fear that you will not be just, then [marry only] one or those your right hand possesses. That is more suitable that you may not incline [to injustice].- Holy Qur’an 4:3
And give the women [upon marriage] their [bridal] gifts graciously. But if they give up willingly to you anything of it, then take it in satisfaction and ease.- Holy Qur’an 4:4
The following verse is interesting because it totally blows out of the water the interpolations that you have asserted upon the Qur’an.
And do not give TTHE WEAK-MINDED YOUR PROPERTY. which Allah has made a means of sustenance for you, but provide for them with it and clothe them and speak to them words of appropriate kindness- Holy Qur’an 4:5
Nothing above saying weak minded women cannot get married.
And test the orphans [in their abilities] until they reach marriageable age. Then if you perceive in them sound judgement, release their property to them. And do not consume it excessively and quickly, [anticipating] that they will grow up. And whoever, [when acting as guardian], is self-sufficient should refrain [from taking a fee]; and whoever is poor – let him take according to what is acceptable. Then when you release their property to them, bring witnesses upon them. And sufficient is Allah as Accountant.- Holy Qur’an 4:6.
There is NOTHING in the text above that says that a woman has to have reached menses and be of sound judgement to be married.
Indeed, those who devour the property of orphans unjustly are only consuming into their bellies fire. And they will be burned in a Blaze.- Holy Qur’an 4: 10
And as for the wall, it belonged to two orphan boys in the city, and there was beneath it a treasure for them, and their father had been righteous. So your Lord intended that they reach maturity and extract their treasure, as a mercy from your Lord. And I did it not of my own accord. That is the interpretation of that about which you could not have patience.”-Qur’an 18:82
This is another example where not even the mental prowess of the orphans is mentioned but maturity here by meaning strength and ability to fend for themselves.
So we do not need you or Joseph Islam, or anyone of your religion interpolating words into the text of the Qur’an.
I do not except this from the traditionalist and I do not except this from the Quraniyoon religion either.
“Yes, these girls are biologically ready to bear children once they start ovulating,”
This and ….
“First of all, I would like to say that I agree with you when you say the Qur’an does not set down an age for marriage.”
What is highly interesting to the reader is that those of you who claim that the Qur’an is “fully detailed” and that it is “clear” -as long as it accords your interpretation of it, never stop to ponder just how much authority Allah swt allocates to those outside of the revelation itself.
For example:
“And test the orphans [in their abilities] until they reach marriageable age. Then if you perceive in them sound judgement, release their property to them.”
It simply says about releasing property to orphans until you PERCEIVE in them sound judgement. Doesn’t give you any type of criteria.
The interesting thing and I would absolutely love -post ramadhan to have a live debate/discussion with anyone from your religion on this very subject because I would love to tease out from your side questions like…. the following.
Let say for the sake of argument that I agreed with your interpolated reading of the text-which I don’t. However, let us entertain you people.
We say o.k Allah swt for what ever reason has decreed that women can start ovulating and producing children at the age of 11 and 12.
If we found a woman who was 11 or 12 that had sound judgement could she marry someone say 50?
I’m going to wager that we will get an emotional response from your side and nothing substantive.
So lets take it further, and let us imagine that your side things that a woman who has sound judgement is around 16 years of age. Would it be appropriate and fine for you all to say she can marry someone who is 50?
Are we going to get Qur’an based answers to these questions or rhetoric and emotive responses?
I’m going to wager the latter.
“But if you want to replace one wife with another and you have given one of them a great amount [in gifts], do not take [back] from it anything. Would you take it in injustice and manifest sin? And how could you take it while you have gone in unto each other and they have taken from you a solemn covenant?” -Holy Qur’an 4:20-21
In Islam when a father gives his daughters hand to a man in marriage he is transfering guardianship. The father was the one responsible to Allah for that woman’s well being. However, when he gives his daughter to that hand in marriage he has fulfilled his responsbility. Allah swt will not hold the father to account for anything as it is now the husbands responsbility.
Something key that you “Abdullah” and “Joseph Islam” leave out is that in the Holy Qur’an 4:21 it is addressing the MEN that the women took a solemn covenant from them, not that the men took a solemn covenant from the women.
wa-akhadhna-and THEY have taken -3rd person feminine plural
minkum-from YOU -2nd person masculine plural
mithaqan-accusative masculine indefinite noun
ghalizan-accusative masculine singular indefinite ajective.
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth-Holy Qur’an 4:34.
It would be quite interesting to see someone from the Quraniyoon religion give a list to us of the women with learning disabilities that are forbidden to seek marriage according to your gross interpolationg of the text.
Perhaps you would forbid women who have down sydrome
Dyspraxia
Dysgraphia
Dyscalculia
Autism
ADHD
The Qur’an doesn’t bar any woman who has any of these challenges to get married.
The Qur’an does caution that a woman who could get taken advantage of concerning her property that its best that a guardian manage her estate/property or what have you.
Any way I feel that you have contributed what you can. I will not be submiting further responses from yourself.
You were given opportunity to speak your thoughts. Also given were two links to “Joseph Islam” and his site which shares similiar view points to you.
May Allah swt guide us all to a way that is straight. It is Ramadan now. Al hamdulillah.
Your opinion on onset of ovulation or menstruation to be equated with an objective standard for Age of Marriage is nonsensical. Even Hippocrates separated the age at which menstruation starts from a healthy age at which a woman’s body is ready to start getting children. Health professionals who work with the victims say (https://www.livescience.com/19584-10-year-birth.html): “Just because a girl can get pregnant, though, doesn’t mean she can safely deliver a baby. The pelvis does not fully widen until the late teens, meaning that young girls may not be able to push the baby through the birth canal.
The results are horrific, said Wall and Thomas, who have both worked in Africa treating women in the aftermath of such labors. Girls may labor for days; many die. Their babies often don’t survive labor either.
The women and girls who do survive often develop fistulas, which are holes between the vaginal wall and the rectum or bladder.”
So biologically speaking your opinion that onset of menstruation means girls cab consider getting pregnant is ill-advised. If you owned horses, cows or other mammals you would recommend very early pregnancies for the dangers they pose.
It is not just liberal westerners who frowned upon age differences. These opinions have always existed.
“what I did find interesting is that among progressive /liberal types in the United States all types of couple arrangements are acceptable such as LGBT, people who are swingers, or share their partners, etc. Yet, they really do frown upon age disparity. Whereas in Asia I have seen and witnessed very often 10 and 15 year age gaps between couples.
So there is wisdom in the Qur’an leaving these matters to time/location/custom/culture.”
In the Jewish tradition large Age gaps were disapproved of and seen as akin to prostitution. So, for example, when Joseph was told to marry Maria his initial refusal was based on his concerns about getting mocked about the age difference.
In a more modern context the state of Delaware “Delaware considers having sex with someone under 16 rape. Having sex with someone under 18, if the offender is over 30, is also considered rape.” also considers a large age-gap a matter of consent and assumes coercion for under-18s.
The UN considers child-marriage child abuse. So one may question why you are promoting child-abuse as an acceptable norm.
If you are going to come on here with “you are promoting child-abuse” as an acceptable norm then you are not here for dialogue or discussion.
Your example of Joseph just doesn’t fly. Quotes and references then when it comes to Joseph silence.
God clearly instructed Joseph to marry Maria, so there goes that argument.
Again as regards ovulation you take that up with thousands of years of human evolution. You know, “mother nature” could have very easily programmed ovulation at what ever solar rotation around the sun the United Nations deemed fit, but it didn’t.
So again enough with your high horse nonsense.
I’m saying we don’t have Quranic evidence to tell us the exact age to get married. Check because you didn’t bring anything.
Neither do we have New Testament or Jewish tanach evidence. You didn’t bring any.
You quoted science I quoted science.
I personally don’t think any woman below 16 should be getting married or having sexual intimacy. But I base that upon my cultural norms and I’m honest about it.
Look even those of you who say Ayesha (r.a) was 18, let’s go with that.
18 year old Ayesha (r.a) with 55 year old Blessed Messenger (saw). Even then people would reject.
So your just stuck with saying maybe the hadiths altogether are all weak. Maybe all we know is she was married, or maybe she wasn’t even a historical figure. Who knows.
Stay safe out there.
Assalamu alaikum,
Bro, just ignore the retard, because he and like him, will never gonna understand. Anyways, I will strive to be the future President of Romania, and I will invite all Muslim political leaders such as Emir of Kuwait and King/Queen of Saudi Arabia to live chat with me on skype, and the topic will be about reforming the teachings of Islam. And then, Muslim World will have to permanently remove and ban child marriage, for it goes against Quran 4:6 and if anyone cpmmits pedophilia in Islamic states will be sentenced to one hundred lashes for it is illicit deed which is not acceptable in Shariah of Islam.
And I will work in becoming also Muslim scholar who will preach against terrorism and violence.
Walakum Salam wrwb, we will try our best not to insult the others. MashAllah may Allah (swt) support you in your endeavors.
I’m talking to the future president of Romania, a beautiful country that I hope I have the opportunity to visit one day.