“Women shall derive benefit from what they acquired. Ask, therefore, Allah out of His bounty: behold, Allah has indeed full knowledge of everything.”(Qur’an 4:32)
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Does The Christian Heaven Have a Place For Women?
We were recently thinking sincerely about this very issue. It seems that Christianity is a bit ambiguous over whom ‘the elect are‘. Many people will say that Jesus died for ‘all‘. However, Calvinists are usually quick to point out that this is not the case. Jesus only died for a few ‘elect‘ whom they believe God has chosen before the foundation of the world.
With that said, texts in the New Testament that tend to generalize salvation, or promises of heaven to all can no longer be taken at face value or for granted.
The very sad thing one quickly realizes about Christian concepts of God, as well as Christian concepts of salvation, is that they are all very male-oriented and male-dominated.
Now it is possible that one might say well what about the women in John’s vision found in the book of Revelation?
We have two “women” in John’s Vision. Neither of these can be taken to be real, actual women. One of them is a whore (false church) and the other is a whore (Israel) that found redemption.
“A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.” (Revelation 12:1)
What can be immediately seen from this text is that it is symbolism and nothing literal about it.
In fact, the word for ‘heaven‘ is ‘ouranoj‘.
The word can mean the sky, the air, the vaulted expanse of the sky. You will note that this woman is wearing various heavenly bodies like the sun, the moon under her feet, and she is wearing a crown of 12 stars.
You will also note the symbolism in the following passage:
“The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.”(Revelation 12:6)
You have to wonder why this “woman” would need to flee into the wilderness to be taken care of if “she” was already in heaven.
Many commentators say that this symbolic “woman” is actually Israel herself. The same Israel that God likened to an adulterous prostitute spoke of in the Bible when God said the following about her:
If this symbolic woman is Israel, Israel too has been likened to a whore:
“But you trusted in your beauty and used your fame to become a prostitute.”(Ezekiel 16:15)
“You adulterous wife! You prefer strangers to your own husband!”(Ezekiel 16:32)
However, this prostitute and adulterous wife, Israel, finally gets to wear a crown of glory in the following passage:
“Then, when I make atonement for you for all you have done, you will remember and be ashamed and never again open your mouth because of your humiliation, declares the Sovereign Lord.” (Ezekiel 16:63)
So there is no woman in heaven at all. What is relayed is a vision of glorified Israel that God has forgiven for its past adultery and prostitution.
The other “woman” mentioned is a whore who has not found redemption.
“One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits by many waters. With her, the kings of the earth committed adultery, and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.”
Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet and was glittering with gold, precious stones, and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. The name written on her forehead was a mystery: Babylon the great the mother of prostitutes and of the abominations of the earth. I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of God’s holy people, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.” (Revelation 17:1-6)
So neither of these provide us with examples of actual women. It is symbolism.
For example, within the Trinity itself, God’s self-love is only expressed in an eternal relationship of Masculine self-love. God — The Father, who loves God The Son. God — The Holy Spirit is a conduit of this love.
It is an eternal bond of masculine self-love.
Now it is interesting that within the Trinity there is no concept of feminine self-love expressed anywhere. There is no Mother and no Daughter in the Trinity. Not even a relationship between a father and a daughter. Nor a relationship between a mother and a son.
How unfortunate that the concept of God dwelling in a community of eternal self-love includes only manifestations of the masculine.
In Islamic theology, the very word that is used to describe the essence of Allah (swt) is the Arabic word ‘dhat‘ and surprise, it is a feminine word.
“But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come”.(John 16:13)
The Holy Spirit is expressed here in terms of the masculine.
What about heaven? Is there a place for Christian women?
Do keep in mind that there are some very negative sentiments towards women in general in the Bible.
“I find more bitter than death the woman who is a snare, whose heart is a trap and whose hands are chains. The man who pleases God will escape her, but the sinner she will ensnare….while I was still searching but not finding, I found one upright man among a thousand but not one upright woman among them all” (Ecclesiastes 7:26-28).
“No wickedness comes anywhere near the wickedness of a woman…..Sin began with a woman and thanks to her we all must die” (Ecclesiastes 25:19,24).
St. Tertullian rips into women when he says:
“Do you not know that you are each an Eve? The sentence of God on this sex of yours lives in this age: the guilt must of necessity live too. You are the Devil’s gateway: You are the unsealer of the forbidden tree: You are the first deserter of the divine law: You are she who persuaded him whom the devil was not valiant enough to attack. You destroyed so easily God’s image, man. On account of your desert, even the Son of God had to die.”
Source: (https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/tertullian27.html)
Source: (The Gospel According to Woman, London: Elm Tree Books, 1986, pp. 52-62. See also Nancy van Vuuren, The Subversion of Women as Practiced by Churches, Witch-Hunters, and Other Sexists Philadelphia: Westminster Press pp.28-30)
“As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak but must be in submission as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home, for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.” (I Corinthians 14:34-35)
Unfortunately, we have no record of Jesus ever once calling Mary, Mother.
“And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there: And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage. And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? My hour is not yet come. His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.” (John 2:1-5)
How beautiful, loving, and intimate it would be to have said to Mary, “mother” instead of just the very disconnected “woman”.
“And your Lord has decreed that you not worship except Him, and to parents, good treatment. Whether one or both of them reach old age while with you, say not to them so much as, “uff,” and do not repel them but speak to them a noble word.” (Qur’an 17:23)
“For you are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as having been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you be Christ’s, then are you Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” (Galatians 3:26-29)
(Now the above passage is simply talking about status in the mystical union Christians have in Christ).
Citing Galatians 3:28 as “proof that women are included as women in heaven” is theologically weak. Paul’s point is about soteriological access (all can be saved regardless of social category), not about resurrection embodiment. Christian eschatology does not promise you will be a woman in the new creation in the same sense you are now. This point will rapidly unfold in what follows.
There is still rank on the Earth. Notice the Holy Spirit informs us that women rank below men.
“But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of a woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God” (1 Corinthians 11:3)
“Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.” (Ephesians 6:5)
We (believers) shall be like Him (Jesus): All Christians are transformed into Sons of God.
“Beloved, now we are now the sons of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.” (1 John 3:2)
Prima Qur’an Comments: One thing you will learn very quickly is that this ‘we‘ quickly becomes a reference to men only. Notice it says that ‘we‘ shall be like him.
What is the proof that the children of God are not daughters but sons? The New Testament is replete with evidence that we will be sons of God.
”Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will.” (Ephesians 1:4-5)
He (God) chose ‘us‘ for adoption as sons not daughters!
“But as many, as received Him, to them He gave the right to become the sons of God, even to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” (John 1:12-13)
“Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called the sons of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.” (1 John 3:1)
“For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba”, Father.” (Romans 8:15)
“For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.” (Romans 8:14)
“Yet the Israelites will be like the sand on the seashore, which cannot be measured or counted. In the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’” (Hosea 1:10)
Prima Qur’an: Now some may muse that ‘Israelites’ here would be a reference to both men and women. However, it is not women who were created to become the sons of God. Women were simply created for the good pleasure of men.
The New Testament affirms this when it says,
“Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.” (1 Corinthians 11:9)
“A man is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.” (1 Corinthians 11:7)
These texts do not really need any comment.
No women or feminity in heaven, so God’s horny sons had to sleep with earth women.
“And it came to pass when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.” (Genesis 6:1-2)
If there were ‘daughters of God‘, the lusty sons wouldn’t have made a play for Earth women.
In fact, Jesus reinforces this point.
“ For in the resurrection, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.” (Matthew 22:30)
Some people may see a contraction between Matthew and Genesis, but there isn’t any.
A. There are no females in heaven and that is why the Sons of God went after the daughters of men. They had the courtesy to marry them.
B. As humanity as we know it comes to an end, the institution of marriage will no longer be around. You will be like the angels, aka SONS OF GOD.
How St. Augustine of Hippo plays the role of a concern troll on this very issue!
In The City of God (Book XXII) he states the following:
Chapter 17.— Whether the Bodies of Women Shall Retain Their Own Sex in the Resurrection.
“From the words, Till we all come to a perfect man, to the measure of the age of the fullness of Christ, Ephesians 4:13, and from the words, Conformed to the image of the Son of God, Romans 8:29, some conclude that women shall not rise women, but that all shall be men, because God made man only of earth, and woman of the man. For my part, they seem to be wiser who make no doubt that both sexes shall rise. For there shall be no lust, which is now the cause of confusion. For before they sinned, the man and the woman were naked, and were not ashamed.”- St Augustine of Hippo.
“From those bodies, then, vice shall be withdrawn, while nature shall be preserved. And the sex of woman is not a vice, but nature. It shall then indeed be superior to carnal intercourse and child-bearing; nevertheless the female members shall remain adapted not to the old uses, but to a new beauty, which, so far from provoking lust, now extinct, shall excite praise to the wisdom and clemency of God, who both made what was not and delivered from corruption what He made.” – St Augustine of Hippo.
“For at the beginning of the human race the woman was made of a rib taken from the side of the man while he slept; for it seemed fit that even then Christ and His Church should be foreshadowed in this event. For that sleep of the man was the death of Christ, whose side, as He hung lifeless upon the cross, was pierced with a spear, and there flowed from it blood and water, and these we know to be the sacraments by which the Church is built up. For Scripture used this very word, not saying He formed or framed, but built her up into a woman; Genesis 2:22, whence also the apostle speaks of the edification of the body of Christ, Ephesians 4:12, which is the Church.” – St Augustine of Hippo.
“The woman, therefore, is a creature of God even as the man; but by her creation from man unity is commended; and the manner of her creation prefigured, as has been said, Christ and the Church. He, then, who created both sexes will restore both. Jesus Himself also, when asked by the Sadducees, who denied the resurrection, which of the seven brothers should have to marry the woman whom all in succession had taken to raise up seed to their brother, as the law enjoined, says, You err, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. Matthew 22:29. And though it was a fit opportunity for His saying, She about whom you make inquiries shall herself be a man, and not a woman, He said nothing of the kind; but In the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. Matthew 22:30. They shall be equal to the angels in immortality and happiness, not in flesh, nor in resurrection, which the angels did not need, because they could not die.” – St Augustine of Hippo.
“The Lord then denied that there would be in the resurrection, not women, but marriages; and He uttered this denial in circumstances in which the question mooted would have been more easily and speedily solved by denying that the female sex would exist, if this had in truth been foreknown by Him. But, indeed, He even affirmed that the sex should exist by saying, They shall not be given in marriage, which can only apply to females; Neither shall they marry, which applies to males. There shall therefore be those who are in this world accustomed to marry and be given in marriage, only they shall there make no such marriages.” – St Augustine of Hippo.
Source: (https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/120122.htm)
First, this text is a clear admission that such a view that women shall not be raised as women, but all shall be men was a known position. This is enough to show anyone that the text is certainly not clear on the matter. In fact, this is the reason why, in the case of Catholics, Orthodox and others, they need such people to begin with.
Second, St. Augustine, in his genius, feigns to address. He pretends to address it. Why do we say this? Of all the text that St. Augustine could have used, he uses the text that says: “but are as the angels of God in heaven.”
ὡς hos in Greek translates as: even as.
St. Augustine plays the role of a concern troll. He feigns opposition but brings a text that actually proves his opponent’s position.
Angels in heaven are all masculine and have masculine names. They always appear as men. They certainly do have lust as well.
“And it came to pass when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.” (Genesis 6:1-2)
The angels visiting Abraham are called anashim (men).
“The Lord appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground.” (Genesis 18:1-2)
The angel who appears to Joshua is described as a “man” (ish).
“Now when Joshua was near Jericho, he looked up and saw a man standing in front of him with a drawn sword in his hand. Joshua went up to him and asked, “Are you for us or for our enemies?” (Joshua 5:13)
Angels at the tomb of Jesus (Matt 28, Mark 16, Luke 24) – described as neaniskos (young man) or andres (men).
“There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men.” (Matthew 28:2-4)
“But when they looked up, they saw that the stone, which was very large, had been rolled away. As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed.” (Mark 16:4-5)
“While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them. In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, “Why do you look for the living among the dead?” (Luke 24:4-5)
The two angels with Lot (Gen 19) – called anashim.
“The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. “My lords,” he said, “please turn aside to your servant’s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning.” (Genesis 19:1-2)
“The two men said to Lot, “Do you have anyone else here—sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here, because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the Lord against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it.” (Genesis 19:12-13)
“And I heard a man’s voice from the Ulai calling, “Gabriel, tell this man the meaning of the vision.” (Daniel 8:16)
“While I was still in prayer, Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight about the time of the evening sacrifice.” (Daniel 9:21)
“The angel said to him, “I am Gabriel. I stand in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to tell you this good news.” (Luke 1:19)
“In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee.” (Luke 1:26)
“But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you.” (Jude 9:9)
“ And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels.” (Revelation 12:7)
All this is very clear. The angels always appear as men. The voice from heaven sounds masculine. The angels all have masculine names.
Everyone in Christ gets transformed into a son of God. Rather you are male or female.
This is very important when you read the following passages. At first blush, it looks like it includes all mankind or humanity. However, as we have seen previously, there will not be any women in paradise.
The Bible makes it very clear that all men and women can be saved under the title of ‘men’ but they, the women, will be transformed into the sons of God.
“For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.” (Romans 8:29)
The greek word for conformed is σύμμορφος (summorphos)
Morphe (μορφή) is an ancient Greek word meaning the form, shape, outward appearance, or nature of a person or object.
“He came as a witness to testify concerning that light so that through him all men might believe.” (John 1:7)
Paul says quite clearly about who God wants to be saved, and who he sent his Son for, in 1 Tim. 2:4-6:
“Who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony to which was borne at the proper time.” (1 Timothy 2:4-6)
“For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.” (1 Timothy 4:10)
While it is true that the word ‘men’ is a euphemism for mankind; the other texts that have been quoted show clearly that the feminine presence has no place in the kingdom of heaven. Any woman that is to be saved becomes a ‘son of God’. She does not retain her feminine identity.
The children of God are never ‘daughters of God‘ they are always ‘sons of God‘.
At the very least, in the Qur’an, Allah (swt) has acknowledged that people attribute daughters to the divine. In the Bible, not even the faintest whisper of that being a possibility.
“And they attribute to Allah daughters– exalted is He – and for them is what they desire.” (Qur’an 16:57)
“For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him, we cry, “Abba, Father.” The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. For the creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed.” (Romans 8:14-19)
Prima Qur’an: All men will be able to share in the glory of God and Christ. The glory of God and Christ, both of whom are masculine persons. In the passage above, ‘God’s children‘ and ‘sons of God‘ are used interchangeably. God’s children are his sons. They were never his daughters! They never become his daughters.
“You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.” (Galatians 3:26)
“This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.” (1 John 3:10)
“Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.” (Revelation 14:1)
“No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins(parthenos). They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. (Revelation 14:3-5)
Not one of the 144,000 is a woman! No women are ever mentioned to be in the kingdom of heaven! No women are mentioned among those who could learn the song. Not even one honourable mention among them.
In Christianity, as explained above, women are created for men, not for the glory of God.
Remember it says “who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins” -This also means sex in marriage. Men are created for heaven as they ultimately reflect the glory of God. Women, however, only reflect the glory of men as the Bible tells us.
“A man is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.” (1 Corinthians 11:7)
Let us make man in our image“ (Genesis 1:26)
Jesus was sent to save men. Those men who accept Jesus will be accepted as God’s sons. They will become the sons of God.
Some modern translations of the Bible have tried to say ‘children of God’ or they even have gender-sensitive Bibles now! They do this to cover up the facts and the truth.
Christianity does not have heaven for women! In Christianity, the ideal scenario is virgin men in mystical union with (The Son (masculine), The Father (masculine), and the Holy Spirit (masculine).
This is unlike heaven as Allah mentioned in the Qur’an. It is for everyone. Men and Women!
Notice in the New Testament as to the salvation and status of women in the hereafter and contrast that with the very crystal clear teachings of the Qur’an!
“Women shall derive benefit from what they acquired. Ask, therefore, God out of His bounty: behold, God has indeed full knowledge of everything.” (Qur’an 4:32)
“And whoever does righteous deeds, whether male or female, while being a believer – those will enter Paradise and will not be wronged, even as much as the speck on a date seed.” (Qur’an 4:124)
The Christians’ only wish is that they had a verse like this.
Prima Qur’an Conclusion:
The Christian heaven is not a place for women. There is no expression of eternal feminine love within the ‘godhead’. If anything ,a woman (who sheds the flesh) is changed into a ‘son of God‘ so that “she” now ‘he‘ as a ‘son of God‘ can enjoy fellowship as the bridegroom of Christ.
Whereas in Islam, the text is very clear that women will be among those who partake in heaven.
If one had to ask which text (The New Testament) or the (Qur’an) is unambiguous and very clear about women being in paradise the Qur’an wins this hands down.
“Whoever does righteousness, whether male or female, while he is a believer, We will surely cause him to live a good life, and We will surely give them their reward in the Hereafter according to the best of what they used to do.”(Qur’an 16:97)
“And their Lord responded to them,“Never will I allow to be lost the work of [any] worker among you, whether male or female; you are of one another. So those who emigrated or were evicted from their homes or were harmed in My cause or fought or were killed – I will surely remove from them their misdeeds,and I will surely admit them to gardens beneath which rivers flow as reward from Allah, and Allah has with Him the best reward.” (Qur’an 3:195)
Allahu Akbar! Allah is the greatest!
To the women reading this. We invite you to Islam!
You are all most welcome!
May Allah Guide the Christians so they do not burn in hellfire!
May Allah Guide the Ummah!
May Allah Forgive the Ummah!
Prima Quran 
I’m not particularly religious, but Paul’s most famous line is “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female; for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”
And many of Jesus’ closest disciplines were women.
There is no scholar, secular or Christian, who agrees with you. That should tell you something. I doubt it will, but intellectual arrogance is also a sin.
You were doing so well with the biblical quote, etc
Than you had to go and become disingenuous with the “you either agree with me or you are intellectually arrogant.”
Not at all. Your comment is approved.
People can look at what is presented weigh the evidence and make the decision.
Gods angels having affairs with daughters of men, already give a clear indication to their gender.
The 124,000 virgin men being presented to Christ.
The fact that those in Christ are the sons of God. Women do not seem to have much of a future in the life to come.
Appreciate the engagement but the disingenuous comments are not really necessary.
Just because someone states that no expert agrees with your poorly reasoned arguement, it doesn’t mean they’re being disingenuous. It also might mean that you don’t know nearly as much as you think you do.
Your biggest error is that you apparently read neither Koine Greek nor Hebrew. A lot of the verses that you’ve translated as “man” or “men” would be better translated as “mankind” or “humans”.
Moreover, it was common in Hebrew, Greek, Latin, and within my lifetime English to use the term “man” to refer to both “men and women”! That has only recently changed.
“Just because someone states that no expert agrees with your poorly reasoned arguement, it doesn’t mean they’re being disingenuous. It also might mean that you don’t know nearly as much as you think you do.”
No, but that is not the way you worded it. So perhaps English is not your first language and you poorly constructed your thoughts. That is possible too.
As regard comment moderation. . I do not live in Dolnoslaskie, nor do I live in Poland. So we are not on the same timings. Nor does my life revolve around this blog/website.
Allah-willing your comments will be approved provided you have no foul language etc.
As regard your statements about man or mankind as well as your assumptions about what I do and do not know.
None of that is lost on me.
Here is an argument supplied in acknowledgement of this.
“He created them male and female and blessed them. And he named them “Mankind” when they were created.” (Genesis 5:2)
Have a great day and a great week ahead. May Allah (swt) guide you.
Ironically, despite your statements, if your comments are representative of your overall linguistic ability my English is significantly better than yours. This is the case regardless if we are talking about the breadth of our respective vocabularies, general word choice, or engaging writing styles.
More importantly, your lack of knowledge when it comes to ancient Hebrew and Greek again rears its ugly head. Genderless sapiens are almost always referred to in masculine terms: this is similar to how English used to be, and is one reason why God is referred to in masculine terms.
Wildly enough, humans do not become angels in either Jewish or Christian mythology. If women or men get into heaven, they do not become angels. Even if they are all masculine, it does not matter to the overall argument. It would prove absolutely nothing. Jesus’ quote does not mean those who go to heaven will literally become angels, just that they will be angelic in terms of sexual engagements.
Revelations is notoriously tricky, but the general consensus seems to be that the 144,000 will not be the total number saved, just the number that are chosen for their special purpose.
The rest of your response is filled with similar errors and misunderstandings, including a lack of basic comprehension in English. This will be my last response. The truth is you do not know enough about Hebrew, Koine Greek, Judaism, or Christianity to engage in this conversation. That is what I mean by intellectual arrogance: you believe your frankly meager understanding of a topic is enough to opine about it. It is not. Effectively no scholar or theologian throughout history has agreed with your opinion, which makes sense because your knowledge of the topic is poor.
You do not know what you do not know, and yet you seek to instruct. Stop it. Be better.
Sergei Anderson /Sergei Wess
For a person not very religious you are certainly very invested in this conversation.
That is until your hasty retreat.
It is you who was unable to deal with the Koine Greek. It was given to you on a silver platter. They become like angels. Not that they become angels.
It is clear as day light English is not your first language; nor do you understand something as crystal clear as what was put forward.
They become like angels. The angels have been shown to be sons of God.
“Effectively no scholar or theologian throughout history has agreed with your opinion, which makes sense because your knowledge of the topic is poor.”
This is where you tucked your tail between your legs and ran.
Because the challenge to you is simple.
Give us, (not just myself) but the truth seekers (whom read the comments) who have now seen you tuck tail and retreat; and will unfortunately never see you give a robust reply.
So for those truth seekers disappointed in our not very religious (but heavily invested) commenter Sergei Anderson/Sergei Wess from Poland we would have liked to see him quote any scholar, or theologian who could do the following:
1) Name for us a single female angel.
2) Give us an example of angels taking on the form of females when they visit earth. It is always men.
“Revelations is notoriously tricky, but the general consensus seems to be that the 144,000 will not be the total number saved, just the number that are chosen for their special purpose.”
Again the lack of English compression is on full display. There was not a single argument made that 144,000 are the total number saved.
““No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. THESE ARE THOSE WHO DID NOT DEFILE THEMSELVES WITH WOMEN, FOR THEY REMAINED VIRGINS virgins(parthenos). They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. (Revelation 14:3-5)”
The point here is to underscore the low spiritual status accorded to women.
Jesus instructed John to write these words btw.
So our faith marriage is something sacred and intimacy is act of worship of which both men and women are awarded for.
In this faith (which is not yours as you are not very religious) -but seemingly heavily invested.
In this faith even intimacy with one’s wife is defilement.
The only thing to be pointed out in this text are the following.
1) Intimacy with a woman (even one’s wife) is seen as a form of defilement.
2) 144,000 virgin men are offered to Christ, not a single woman among them.
“This will be my last response.”
Of course it is now because you have nothing of substance.
Leave this conversation to the actual clergy and theologians.
As you have been exposed to the truth by visiting this site you have no excuse on the day of judgement.
As I said in my other post that I suppose still hasn’t been approved, in both ancient Hebrew and Koine Greek terms for “man” often refer to all mankind. This is similar to Latin and English, though it is falling out of favour in the latter language.
For example, in Genesis 1:27, “God created man (אָדָם) in His own image,” the term refers to both male and female, as the verse continues to specify, “male and female He created them.”
Another word, אִישׁ (‘ish), can mean “man” specifically as a male but sometimes is used more generally to refer to a person or a human being in a collective sense.
As for Koine Greek, The word ἄνθρωπος (anthrōpos) is often translated as “man” but more accurately means “human being” or “person.” It is a gender-neutral term that refers to humanity in general. For example, in the New Testament, Jesus often uses this term to speak about people in general (e.g., “The Son of Man” or ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου).
The word ἀνήρ (anēr) specifically refers to a male or husband. However, in certain contexts, even this term can be used in a more generic sense to refer to people in general, though this is less common than with anthrōpos.
To give one example, Mark 2:27
Greek Text: Καὶ ἔλεγεν αὐτοῖς, Τὸ σάββατον διὰ τὸν ἄνθρωπον ἐγένετο, οὐχ ὁ ἄνθρωπος διὰ τὸ σάββατον·
Translation: “And he said to them, ‘The Sabbath was made for man (ἄνθρωπος, anthrōpos), not man for the Sabbath.'”
It it only men who were supposed to honour the Sabbath? No. It is all mankind. And the Bible, both Jewish and Christian, are filled with such examples.
Again as regard comment approval or moderation. I do not live in Dolnoslaskie, nor do I live in Poland.
I also do not surround my life with visiting this blog/website.
Provided you have no filthy language and/or your comments are relevant to the post they will be eventually approved insh’Allah.
Familiar with all the points here.
Again I will reiterate my points.
“A man is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.” (1 Corinthians 11:7)
Man is the image of the perfection of God, woman is simply just an image of broken/fallen man.
The Godhead/(Trinity) of Christianity is an eternal relationship of masculine love. It is a father/son relationship. That is what is deemed as appropriate for all eternity.
There is no Father/Daughter relationship or Mother/Son relationship in the Trinity.
The ultimate relationship in the Christian tradition has and always will be that between a Father and his Son.
So for example when I quote the following:
““He came as a witness to testify concerning that light so that through him all men might believe.” (John 1:7)
I have no problem conceding that men here can be mankind.
But the following text make it quite clear as to the condition of the afterlife.
Apparently you did not go and read the context of the following:
“For in the resurrection, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.” (Matthew 22:30)
If the narrative is true at all, it is Jesus (as) replying to the Jewish leadership that were trying to trip him. There was a woman who was married to this man and he died and he gave the woman no children, so the second brother marries her and he dies and the third and so on.
So they asked in the next life who would have her.
Let me go ahead and post the context here:
“That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. 24 “Teacher,” they said, “Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and raise up offspring for him. 25 Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother. 26 The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh. 27 Finally, the woman died. 28 Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?”
29 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 At the resurrection PEOPLE WILL NEITHER MARRY NOR BE GIVEN IN MARRIAGE; THEY WILL BE LIKE THE ANGELS IN HEAVEN” (Matthew 22:23-29)
So what is the condition of the angels in heaven?
I would simply challenge you to show me one unequivocal text to show me where the Bible ever mentions the angels as daughters of God or where the daughters of God and Angels are interchangeable.
You want to talk about scholars, rabbis, priest etc. Excellent! This is your chance!
Go and consult with them Since your claim is….
“I’m not particularly religious.” Than go and consult the learned.
“And it came to pass when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.” (Genesis 6:1-2)
There are no daughters of God who saw the men of the earth.
PEOPLE WILL NEITHER MARRY NOR BE GIVEN IN MARRIAGE; THEY WILL BE LIKE THE ANGELS IN HEAVEN
The Koine Greek ὡς if you struggle to understand what that word means that is on you.
LIKE the ANGELS IN HEAVEN…
How are they LIKE?
Hmm lets see..
Gabriel (masculine)
Michael (masculine)
Abaddon (masculine)
Also if we want to follow further Christian mythology not mentioned in the Bible.
Lucifer(fallen angel) -masculine
“No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins(parthenos). They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. (Revelation 14:3-5)
They did not DEFILE THEMSELVES WITH WOMEN
Look at this. Woman is just the image of man. She was even created because it says God saw man was lonely. Her whole purpose is to reproduction to produce more people will sin or either commit to God.
I see no clear role for women in the afterlife.
Also, every time the angels appear to people on Earth they always appear as men! No angel ever appears in Scripture dressed up like a female.
I look forward to you bringing me the scholars that show references in the Bible for female angels. Or even where they appear as females.
You may also want to look at: https://biblehub.com/job/1-6.htm
“One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them.”
“One day the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them.”
Notice that the word angels /sons of God are interchangeable.
May Allah (swt) guide you to the truth.
Eh, I’m not that engaged in this conversation, nor does it mean a lot to me. I strongly agree that Christianity, Judaism, and especially Islam treat women poorly, both in reality and in terms of theology. Particularly in Islamic countries, where the vile treatment of women is so infamous that it is known the world over. It is one reason I will never be a Muslim: I have known too many women who came from Islamic countries and now hate the Qu’ran and everything it stands for.
As for running away: I do not claim you as my equal, or even as someone with enough intellect to waste my time. Your obsession with trivialities like the gender of angels in uninteresting and pointless. It is as relevant as the price of tea in China, and if you think otherwise we are simply not on the same level.
“The rest of your response is filled with similar errors and misunderstandings, including a lack of basic comprehension in English. This will be my last response.”
So not only are you a liar you have no integrity. “This will be my last response.” Maybe you are lacking in the basic of English comprehension?
When does “This will be my last comment” turn into. ” I have nothing worthy or intellectual to say so I am now going to try and re-direct the topic.”
“As for running away: I do not claim you as my equal, or even as someone with enough intellect to waste my time. Your obsession with trivialities like the gender of angels in uninteresting and pointless. It is as relevant as the price of tea in China, and if you think otherwise we are simply not on the same level.”
Yes here you are investing your time in creating an account to comment and leaving several comments.
Those Muslim women who left Islam -May Allah grant them clarity in faith so that they will be guided back. However, if they are lost, we will gladly take the Polish, Italian, English, Dutch and German women who are converting to Islam in the 100s and finding peace, comfort, solace and a welcoming place for them in heaven.
But yes even though you are not a person of integrity and certainly have a sense of self importance (I guess one must hold on to narcissism in a materialistic world view not much else going on) certainly that was last your comment (Aug 21 2024).
May Allah guide you Sergei Wess.