Tag Archives: flat-earth

“The Qur’an teaches that the Earth is flat” -Sam Gerrans (Qur’an Only Advocate)

“Verily! In the creation of the heavens and the earth, and in the alternation of night and day, there are indeed signs for men of understanding.” (Qur’an 3:190)

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The above image is an ‘Islamic’ Globe dated from the early 1800s.

Source: https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/19691.html

For those who do not know, follower of the Qur’an Only Religion and translator of the Qur’an, Sam Gerrans believes that in his deep study of the Qur’an that his conclusion is the following:

The Qur’an is clear. We live on a stationary, flat earth, with a solid firmament above us.

You can see his full discussion here:

Sam Gerrans pictured above.

This is the picture that Sam uses in the thumbnail to the video above (with his own modifications).

Now it is not clear if Sam Gerrans believes that we have a universe or if that is also part of the deception. In his thumbnail he puts God “outside” of Creation, or so it seems. On his thumbnail (not included in the picture above) he has the “Heaven of Heavens” and then God is “above” it. Or so it seems. Because if it’s all flat, we don’t really know if God is “above” the Creation or below it.

Theology is not a strong point of those who follow the Qur’an Only Religion; thus, it is hard to glean whether Sam believes that Allah(swt) is outside of space/time.

This was the belief of the ancient people that the Earth that we live on is flat.

“The tree you saw, which grew large and strong, whose top reached the sky and was visible to all the earth.” (Daniel 4:20)

This is the belief of those who believe in a flat Earth. No such tree has existed or ever will exist, because in a spherical world it is impossible to see such an object. Not to mention the fact that objects appear smaller/larger via distance to that object.

“When he had reached the departure of the sun and found it departing in a murky spring, he found people nearby. We said: O Dhu’l-Qarnayn: thou shalt either punish or take concerning them good.” (Qur’an 18:86)

Why Sam feels the need to translate into English “thou shalt” in the 21st century is beyond us.

Now we would personally offer to do this for Sam Gerrans, and we hope others will join in on this fun little project. That we get different people who live in different time zones (unless that too is part of the conspiracy) and as the sun “sets” in our area someone else who is experiencing 1:00pm can tell us if the sun has “departed” or not.

Now, the only place on Earth (with our limited knowledge of topography and geography) that might fit this description would be Iceland, where they experience the “midnight” sun with 6 months of darkness. Yet, we are really hoping that Sam does not believe that, during those 6 months of darkness, that the rest of us who do experience sunlight are under some mass hallucination.

This is how many of the translations of the Qur’an look like when dealing with the verse of the sun “setting in a murky spring.”

“When he had reached the departure of the sun and found it departing in a murky spring, he found people nearby. Allah said, “O Dhul-Qarnayn, either you punish or else adopt among them goodness.” (Qur’an 18:86)

This is side by side with Gerrans translation:

“When he had reached the departure of the sun and found it departing in a murky spring and found people nearby

We said: O Dhu’l-Qarnayn: thou shalt either punish or take concerning them good.” (Qur’an 18:86)

Now either the Qur’an is using language that describes how some human beings perceive their reality (which is very damaging to the claims of Sam Gerrans), or we are confronted with the reality that the Qur’an contradicts observable phenomena. Observable phenomena which is tawatur — continuous mass testimony.

The sun neither sets nor departs. It is part of the language that is used even in the 21st century, unlike “thou shalt”. For example:

For example, it was part of the language of the people when welcoming the Blessed Prophet (saw).

ṭala‘a ‘l-badru ‘alaynā -The full moon rose over us

min thaniyyāti ‘l-wadā‘ -From the valley of Wada‘

The people of Mecca did not believe that the moon rose from the valley of Wada. This was with in the poetic expression of the people. However, from their observable perspective, they likely did believe that the moon literally rose (though not necessarily from the valley of Wada).

Now if we had to choose between the following:

1) 1) There is a massive conspiracy out there to deny the truth about a flat Earth, where the water somehow doesn’t fall off the edge, and there is some ice wall /or barrier we cannot penetrate.

OR

2) Sam Gerrans is part of some psy-op that is out to make the Qur’an look absurd.

If we had to choose between the two, we would say that 2 is more likely. The problem is that science itself is often not very bright, not very intelligent at all when interacting with people who believe the Earth is hallow, or the flat-Earth people like Sam Gerrans.

Take, for example, this video by Neil Tyson whose first point is very dumb. So Neil’s first point is that Flat Earthers believe that other planetary bodies are spherical/round. Actually, we know some that don’t believe that at all. They don’t believe in other planets or that we even have a universe! (Not sure Sam Gerrans stance on this.) However, look at this image and study it for a moment. Why do you think it is not very bright to use 2D images of 9 discs pointed one way and one 2D image of a disc pointed another way to prove that all 10 of the discs are spherical?

Whereas the next point is more cogent and people like Sam Gerrans really struggle to explain this.

So, yes, we are more likely to believe that Sam Gerrans is a part of a psy-op that wants to make the Qur’an look bad than we are willing to believe there is a massive conspiracy to deny that our Earth is flat. However, one’s beliefs need to stand on the merit of their own claims.

It’s fascinating that the people who claim that the Qur’an alone is sufficient for complete guidance are at the same time making videos for their followers offering ‘guidance’, commentary and responding to doubts or questions about what the Qur’an is saying or teaching, like the Qur’an on its own is actually not sufficient for complete guidance. Or how about the fact that these same individuals then start disagreeing or refuting other ‘Qur’an alone’ teachers due to not considering one another’s understanding and interpretation of certain verses to be correct, despite both sides claiming the Qur’an alone is sufficient.

You may also be interested in reading the following:

May Allah Guide the Ummah.

May Allah Forgive the Ummah.

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Is Dr. Ali Ataie of Zaytuna a Flat-Earther?

“Verily! In the creation of the heavens and the earth, and in the alternation of night and day, there are indeed signs for men of understanding.” (Qur’an 3:190)

﷽ 

There has been circulating around social media a recent talk done by Dr. Ali Ataie of Zaytuna institute. It looks as if he was defending the concept that the earth is circular and flat rather than circular and spherical.

Note: This article has been updated as of 20/7/2023 in light of new developments. Please see the end of this article.

This seems to have spread from the venue of a YouTube channel for MCC East Bay and then quickly deleted.

This is the video that was deleted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqzD1ZkAJn8

Deleting the video was a bad move to begin with. Why?

Because it looks as if something was being covered up and, quite naturally, it got thinking people curious. The title of the video itself could go either way. Meaning Dr. Ataie could be discussing competing views while sharing his own. Or, Dr. Ataie could be sharing competing views while debunking another view.

The video title says: “Views on the Shape of the Earth: Flat Earth & Geocentrism| Dr. Ali Ataie

Interestingly, the pro-Zionist, MEMRI channel picked up on this with lightning speed! MEMRI was co-founded by former Israeli military intelligence officer Yigal Carmon and Israeli-American political scientist Meyrav Wurmser.

You can see the video clip above:

Now some who do not think Dr. Ali Ataie was promoting flat earth may ask “Where is the time stamp where he says the Earth is flat?” In fact, Dr. Abdullah bin Hamid Ali posted this on his Twitter feed:

Three things to note from this:

  1. I was just raising some common arguments that flat earthers raise.” Which is not a denial that he is a flat-earther.
  2. “Notice I never said that I believed in the flat earth.” But he never said he didn’t either.
  3. My position is always Allah Alim, it’s not essential to me either way.”

Also, the talk went very quickly into free-mason territory. Everyone from Sir Isaac Newton being a knighted Freemason occultist, to around 94% of astronauts being Freemasons to Neil deGrasse Tyson.

These are the type of things you would want to seed in the minds of the population if you wanted to say there was a massive effort to distort reality.

Now that being said, we want to say what our position is. We personally will stop using the terminology “conspiracy theory”. We believe such terminology is created by those who do not want us to think. Yes, indeed there are conspiracies. Not all conspiracies are nefarious. People could conspire to throw a colleague a surprise party, for example.

Yet, we do not believe in labeling things as conspiracy as a pejorative to shut down a particular view point.

Every theory is a theory that merits rigorous principles of logic, investigation, reflection and experimentation where possible.

In fact, we find it strange that those people who consider themselves skeptics or open-minded do not welcome the exploration of all theories.

So, for us it is all on the table.

Did the moon landing happen? Was JFK an inside job? Is COVID-19 a massive data collection ploy and a means to boost the revenue of big pharma?

Just look at these sensational headlines:

https://nypost.com/2023/07/15/rfk-jr-says-covid-was-ethnically-targeted-to-spare-jews/

Maybe it is plausible that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is a plant that said what he said to make anyone who challenged the official narrative of covid-19 look like anti-Jewish quack.

Who knows anymore!

There is something that strikes a cord with what Dr. Ali Ataie said, though that merits pensive reflection:

“If we are on a flat surface and all the stars and planets go around us, then this is clearly designed for us. Someone put us on a pedestal. But by insisting that we are all apes, living on some random planet, going around the sun, in the corner of some random galaxy among billions of others, then we are easier to control by people in power. They can convince us that our lives are all about dunya, and to obey them, not God” — Dr. Ataie

Now let us suspend judgement for half a second. If, for the sake of argument, that model of the Earth was/is true, it would be such, in your face, evidence that we really are a special creation that one would have to have veils upon veils of darkness upon them to deny Allah.

May Allah (swt) guide us to what is beloved to Allah (swt).

We have two other related articles on the subject you, the reader may be interested in:

This article has been updated as of 20/7/2023 in light of new developments.

Dr. Ali Ataie has unequivocally stated that he is not a flat earther!

Because this does not help either brother Ataie. People will wonder

“Wallahi, anyone who calls me a flat earther is a liar.” -Dr. Ali Ataie

“I am not a flat earther.” -Dr. Ali Ataie

“But I am not a flat earther.” -Dr. Ali Ataie

Prima Qur’an comments:

Dr. Ataie states:

“The article by memri is an inaccurate hit piece written by a Zionist organization.”

Hence, the reason why the video should not have been deleted by MCC East Bay. Because that video would have provided much needed context, if any. However, we are the ones that pointed out that this organization (MEMRI) is run by Zionists, and we were also amazed at how quickly that organization picked up on some small discussion which was not at a convention or even well advertised. Dr. Ataie is not really all that well known. I do not mean that as a slight. Really makes you wonder who is who in our Muslim community. How did that organization(MEMRI) get that material and publish it ?

That being said, it would help if MCC East Bay did not delete the video. Because, on the one hand, Dr. Ataie is saying:

“The article by memri is an inaccurate hit piece written by a Zionist organization.”

While also stating:

“I made several ill-advised off-the-cuff comments during a random Q &A…”

“It was not wise to make those comments and cause confusion.”

We really, really wish Dr. Ataie wouldn’t have made that statement: “is an inaccurate hit piece.” The rest of his statement is absolutely fine.

However, by making that comment, Muslims are now going to wonder why the original video was deleted and if it would be made public and this has the potential to lend credibility to that cursed organization (Memri). That is if nothing was taken out of context.

Dr. Abdullah Bin Hamid Ali, who meant well by defending his friend, most likely triggered more people by tweeting a flurry of controversial tweets.

Views should be weighed by the evidence and the arguments.

That being said, we do not think that Dr. Abdullah, Dr. Ataie or anyone for that matter should be castigated for having views that others find that go against mainstream scientific convictions.

Naturally, some Muslims chimed in and rightfully mentioned that much of this could have been clarified from the first post.

The problem with this clarification is that it comes down to a situation of damned if you do and damned if you do not. So, because Dr. Ataie brought up the free masons, some flat Earthers who support Dr. Ataie (based upon their presumptions of his own views) are now going to think that Dr. Ataie is caving in to pressure from such groups. They fail to realize that Dr. Ataie was simply sharing their perspective without necessarily endorsing it.

People, it is not easy to be in the public eye.

Our sincere advice to Muslim speakers. Whoever is recording such public events should give full disclosure to the one being recorded and be completely transparent with them on how and where the contents are to be released.

Conclusion: Dr. Ali Ataie has not retracted or recanted anything. To recant or retract would be to state something and then change positions. He never claimed he was a flat earther. He has simply clarified in no uncertain terms. He is not a flat earther.

As regards those Muslims who associate with and support Zionist and Zionist supporters.

May Allah guide you! May Allah (swt) free Palestine and either guide or crush the oppressors! Amin

May Allah Guide the Ummah.

May Allah Forgive the Ummah.

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