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Is Dr. Ali Ataie of Zaytuna a Flat-Earther?

“Verily! In the creation of the heavens and the earth, and in the alternation of night and day, there are indeed signs for men of understanding.” (Qur’an 3:190)

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There has been circulating around social media a recent talk done by Dr. Ali Ataie of Zaytuna institute. It looks as if he was defending the concept that the earth is circular and flat rather than circular and spherical.

Note: This article has been updated as of 20/7/2023 in light of new developments. Please see the end of this article.

This seems to have spread from the venue of a YouTube channel for MCC East Bay and then quickly deleted.

This is the video that was deleted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqzD1ZkAJn8

Deleting the video was a bad move to begin with. Why?

Because it looks as if something was being covered up and, quite naturally, it got thinking people curious. The title of the video itself could go either way. Meaning Dr. Ataie could be discussing competing views while sharing his own. Or, Dr. Ataie could be sharing competing views while debunking another view.

The video title says: “Views on the Shape of the Earth: Flat Earth & Geocentrism| Dr. Ali Ataie

Interestingly, the pro-Zionist, MEMRI channel picked up on this with lightning speed! MEMRI was co-founded by former Israeli military intelligence officer Yigal Carmon and Israeli-American political scientist Meyrav Wurmser.

You can see the video clip above:

Now some who do not think Dr. Ali Ataie was promoting flat earth may ask “Where is the time stamp where he says the Earth is flat?” In fact, Dr. Abdullah bin Hamid Ali posted this on his Twitter feed:

Three things to note from this:

  1. I was just raising some common arguments that flat earthers raise.” Which is not a denial that he is a flat-earther.
  2. “Notice I never said that I believed in the flat earth.” But he never said he didn’t either.
  3. My position is always Allah Alim, it’s not essential to me either way.”

Also, the talk went very quickly into free-mason territory. Everyone from Sir Isaac Newton being a knighted Freemason occultist, to around 94% of astronauts being Freemasons to Neil deGrasse Tyson.

These are the type of things you would want to seed in the minds of the population if you wanted to say there was a massive effort to distort reality.

Now that being said, we want to say what our position is. We personally will stop using the terminology “conspiracy theory”. We believe such terminology is created by those who do not want us to think. Yes, indeed there are conspiracies. Not all conspiracies are nefarious. People could conspire to throw a colleague a surprise party, for example.

Yet, we do not believe in labeling things as conspiracy as a pejorative to shut down a particular view point.

Every theory is a theory that merits rigorous principles of logic, investigation, reflection and experimentation where possible.

In fact, we find it strange that those people who consider themselves skeptics or open-minded do not welcome the exploration of all theories.

So, for us it is all on the table.

Did the moon landing happen? Was JFK an inside job? Is COVID-19 a massive data collection ploy and a means to boost the revenue of big pharma?

Just look at these sensational headlines:

https://nypost.com/2023/07/15/rfk-jr-says-covid-was-ethnically-targeted-to-spare-jews/

Maybe it is plausible that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is a plant that said what he said to make anyone who challenged the official narrative of covid-19 look like anti-Jewish quack.

Who knows anymore!

There is something that strikes a cord with what Dr. Ali Ataie said, though that merits pensive reflection:

“If we are on a flat surface and all the stars and planets go around us, then this is clearly designed for us. Someone put us on a pedestal. But by insisting that we are all apes, living on some random planet, going around the sun, in the corner of some random galaxy among billions of others, then we are easier to control by people in power. They can convince us that our lives are all about dunya, and to obey them, not God” — Dr. Ataie

Now let us suspend judgement for half a second. If, for the sake of argument, that model of the flat Earth was/is true, it would be such, in your face, evidence that we really are a special creation that one would have to have veils upon veils of darkness upon them to deny Allah.

May Allah (swt) guide us to what is beloved to Allah (swt).

We have two other related articles on the subject you, the reader may be interested in:

This article has been updated as of 20/7/2023 in light of new developments.

Dr. Ali Ataie has unequivocally stated that he is not a flat earther!

Because this does not help either brother Ataie. People will wonder

“Wallahi, anyone who calls me a flat earther is a liar.” -Dr. Ali Ataie

“I am not a flat earther.” -Dr. Ali Ataie

“But I am not a flat earther.” -Dr. Ali Ataie

Prima Qur’an comments:

Dr. Ataie states:

“The article by memri is an inaccurate hit piece written by a Zionist organization.”

Hence, the reason why the video should not have been deleted by MCC East Bay. Because that video would have provided much needed context, if any. However, we are the ones that pointed out that this organization (MEMRI) is run by Zionists, and we were also amazed at how quickly that organization picked up on some small discussion which was not at a convention or even well advertised. Dr. Ataie is not really all that well known. I do not mean that as a slight. Really makes you wonder who is who in our Muslim community. How did that organization(MEMRI) get that material and publish it ?

That being said, it would help if MCC East Bay did not delete the video. Because, on the one hand, Dr. Ataie is saying:

“The article by memri is an inaccurate hit piece written by a Zionist organization.”

While also stating:

“I made several ill-advised off-the-cuff comments during a random Q &A…”

“It was not wise to make those comments and cause confusion.”

We really, really wish Dr. Ataie wouldn’t have made that statement: “is an inaccurate hit piece.” The rest of his statement is absolutely fine.

However, by making that comment, Muslims are now going to wonder why the original video was deleted and if it would be made public and this has the potential to lend credibility to that cursed organization (Memri). That is if nothing was taken out of context.

Dr. Abdullah Bin Hamid Ali, who meant well by defending his friend, most likely triggered more people by tweeting a flurry of controversial tweets.

Views should be weighed by the evidence and the arguments.

That being said, we do not think that Dr. Abdullah, Dr. Ataie or anyone for that matter should be castigated for having views that others find that go against mainstream scientific convictions.

Naturally, some Muslims chimed in and rightfully mentioned that much of this could have been clarified from the first post.

The problem with this clarification is that it comes down to a situation of damned if you do and damned if you do not. So, because Dr. Ataie brought up the free masons, some flat Earthers who support Dr. Ataie (based upon their presumptions of his own views) are now going to think that Dr. Ataie is caving in to pressure from such groups. They fail to realize that Dr. Ataie was simply sharing their perspective without necessarily endorsing it.

People, it is not easy to be in the public eye.

Our sincere advice to Muslim speakers. Whoever is recording such public events should give full disclosure to the one being recorded and be completely transparent with them on how and where the contents are to be released.

Conclusion: Dr. Ali Ataie has not retracted or recanted anything. To recant or retract would be to state something and then change positions. He never claimed he was a flat earther. He has simply clarified in no uncertain terms. He is not a flat earther.

As regards those Muslims who associate with and support Zionist and Zionist supporters.

May Allah guide you! May Allah (swt) free Palestine and either guide or crush the oppressors! Amin

May Allah Guide the Ummah.

May Allah Forgive the Ummah.

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My own experience with Shi’a.

“Travel through the land and observe how He began creation. Then Allah will produce the final creation. Indeed Allah, over all things, is competent.” (Qur’an 29:20)

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Our colleague recounts their encounter with Shi’i 

Now when I say, “My experience with the Shi’i”, I should clarify that by that I mean the 12er Shi’i. The bulk of my experience has been with them.

When I was studying at Zaytuna before it became Zaytuna college, a fellow student and I named Wasif and I went for an afternoon stroll. I recall how he was telling me, “C’mon brother, just one more burger before we walk the straight and narrow.” He had a love for American burgers and was bound and determined to have just one more before going completely halal.

The time for Maghrib came upon us and there was a mosque on the side of a street. We walked in, and it was certainly a 12er Shi’a Mosque. You can see pictures of various Imams on the wall. We did not hesitate to join the congregation for the Maghrib prayer. I only noted to myself afterward that it was interesting that the whole prayer was out loud. Of course, when we went back to Zaytuna, the brothers were sharing their day-to-day things, and the subject came up. One brother approached Wasif and I said, “You prayed behind the Shi’i. Your prayer may not be valid. You better go and talk to Shaykh Mohamed Yaqubi.”

Well, low and behold, we were advised to do our prayer over again. I cannot speak for Wasif, but I didn’t take the advice. I saw no valid reason to. They prayed and I prayed. My prayer is not for them or their school. It is for Allah (swt).

Then there was the time I went for the ATMT (Awareness Through Mosque Tour) training course in Manama, Bahrain. Very beautiful team, great host, and amazing instructors! Unfortunately, during my first Friday prayer there, after everyone does there two nawafil many gather in small groups to simply chit-chat. So, one of the people with us nearby was talking about how “The Shi’i are spreading like cock roaches”. I was really disgusted by the fact that he would like this about other Muslims, and in the mosque no less! So I told him, “We should not talk about other Muslims like this.”

On another occasion, we (the trainees) were going on a guided tour of museums. A Mualif (convert) sister, who came from either the Czech Republic or Hungary was talking to a very stout Arab man. As we were walking they were discussing the current(then) volatile situation in Iraq. I made the comment that, “Sunni and Shi’i Muslims should unite.” To which he quipped: “Who said they are Muslims?” I responded, “What do you mean?” He replied, “The Shi’i who said they are Muslims?” I responded, “Our scholars (Sunni) say they are deviant, but Muslims nonetheless.” At that time I was still following the Maliki School.

The adhaan had sounded. Frustrated with what I had just heard, I stormed off from the group and happened upon a local mosque just a few blocks away. I sat in the front row waiting for the Imam to come forward. The congregants of the Mosque seemed primarily Indo-Pakistani from what I could tell. One brother said the Iqama and an elderly man was pushing me to lead the salaah! I looked around and was wondering if the actual Imam would come forward, and they kept pushing me to lead the prayer. Well, I did just that. Let me tell you it is a huge thing to lead the prayer. It was like a huge weight to lead the congregational prayer. My respect to every Imam of every Masjid on the planet. You can really feel the weight of doing something that one would think is a simple task. After the salaah, I made du’a, did more rakats and left.

Later, that robust Arab brother came up to me during dinner and apologized to me. That took me by surprise because, to be honest, he did not strike me as the type of person who would do that. I later found out from some organizers of ATMT that this brother’s family was killed by a Shi’i death squad in Iraq. May Allah (swt) soften his heart and grant him ease.

Let me tell you, you need to choose your words very carefully when traversing this Earth. Once, in what I thought was a casual conversation, when talking about the region (I being from the States), I called the waters around Bahrain, the “Persian Gulf”. Boy! That’s a blunder! “It is the Arabian Sea!” One man interrupted. I responded with, “Why not call it the sea of Islam, or the Gulf of Allah?”

I remember not far from the hotel we were staying I went out one evening to do dhikr by the “Gulf of Allah” all the while staring off into the direction of Iraq. The cool breeze of the water filled the surrounding air. It was surreal because just a few hundred kilometers was the closest I ever was physically to a war zone. I reflected on the events of the day and made du’a that Allah (swt) would fill the region with peace.

Another encounter was with when I was in Singapore. A brother I met at the Sultan Masjid. Brother Ali Al Ausi, a very kind and jovial brother. I do not want to take from his good deeds by publicly stating the many good things he has done, but Al hamdulillah I saw first hand how he was there to help those in need (fisabilillah). We were roommates for a while, and sometimes I would lead the salaah and other times he would. l was sometimes amused by his method of salah because he would wear jeans that have loops (where the belt goes through) and he would put his thumbs there and hang them during the prayer. Quite cavalier I thought to myself! Haha.

He told about his family leaving Najaf and going to Russia and from there eventually settling in the United Kingdom. His father worked in pizza shops until he became a manager and worked very hard to put his family on a proper footing.

He also told me about his doubts concerning Shi’sm and that he agreed Muslims should be Qur’an centric. He told me about how Shi’i get worked up in the Mosque during sermons on Karbala and that they would want to go out and beat up the first Sunni they saw. By Allah, these are his words, not mine.

Interestingly enough, for those of you who remember the man in Iraq who took off his shoe and threw it at president George Bush Jr, well, that man (the man who threw the shoe) was going to marry his daughter to my friend Ali. They met in Damascus, Syria, and once Ali confided in her that he didn’t believe in some of the stuff about Shi’ism, she stormed off saying, “I would rather marry a Sunni than you!”

He also divulged to me about some rather wealthy Shi’a Arabs that would practice Muta with some of the poorer Arab women in Egypt, and he was rather disgusted by it all. I recall how he remarked, “If everyone is doing Muta, then who will get married?”

I just wanted to say that this book was given to me by my good friend Dr. Ali Al-Ausi, upon my request. He informed his mother that he had a friend wanting to know more about the 12er jurisprudence. The book is still in my collection. Brother Ali is one of the kindest, honest, generous, and most truthful Muslims I have ever met.

My meeting with the respected, Ali Larijani (The Former Speaker of the Parliament of Iran). This was an occasion at the Sultan Mosque in Singapore when his delegation came to Singapore. I was actually scheduled to give a talk to him and his delegation and there was a change of plans. I prepared before he came by trying to find out about his background. I saw that he studied Philosophy and particularly liked the philosopher Immanuel Kant.

His entourage created quite a shock at the Mosque because the ladies who were with them prayed in the main prayer hall (where the men usually pray). I was amused by it all. Nonetheless, after the prayer, I approached Ali Larijani, who had two bodyguards and one cleric with him. I greeted him, “Assalamu alaikum warahmutallahi wabaraktuh.” He replied the same. I then told him, “I am from America and I wish for peace between us and Iran.” He replied, “That they too wish for peace.” I then asked him what his favourite quote from Kant was. I could tell by his reaction. He was surprised. He responded with Kant quoting the golden rule: “Do not do that to others that you would not like them to do to you.”

Now that is the sum total of my personal experience and interaction with Shi’i or anything in relation to them in my lifetime. If you think, based upon what I shared above, that I hate Shi’i, that is really up to you.

That being said, when it comes to what I encounter online, via various social media platforms and what have you, I have found Shi’a (12er,especially) to be very dishonest, disingenuous and not very forward.

The one thing I do admire about Salafis, Sunnis of all stripes, even those who follow the Hafs Qur’an only religion. Ahmadiyyah etc. is there willingness to be forthright.

Their willingness to say, “I am such and such and this is where I stand.” With the Shi’i, I don’t get this. What I find is they often join groups posing that they are part of this or that and keeping quiet about being Shi’a.

Look! If we were in Syria, Iraq, Lebanon or other places where sectarianism is highly charged and a person’s life is in danger, I would get it. However, this skulking around various platforms pretending to be Hanafi, or Quranist. Anything else is simply just cowardly. It truly is.

All these people saying Ya Ali, Ya Ali Madad. How they would have loved to be at Karbala, or have lifted their sword for Ali. Look, mate, you cannot even be honest enough with yourself to say what you are openly.

And honestly, what I do see on YouTube, of the interactions of 12ers and Zaydi’s with Sunnis, is that the Shi’a end up getting intellectually owned, time and again.

You may also wish to read the following:

May Allah (swt) Forgive the Ummah.

May Allah (swt) Guide the Ummah.

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