Tag Archives: sunni

November 24, 2023 · 8:52 am

Are Sunni sources correct that we don’t have the entire Qur’an with us?

And recite that which hath been revealed unto you of the Scripture of thy Lord. There is none who can change His words, and you will find no refuge beside Him. (Qur’an 18:27)

“We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it.” (Qur’an 15:9)

“It is for us to assemble it and to promulgate it. And when we have promulgated it, follow thou its recital (as promulgated). Nay more, it is for us to explain it.” (Qur’an 75:17-19)

“It is not you who slew them; it was Allah: when you threw , it was not your act, but Allah’s: in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself: for Allah is He Who hears and knows (all things). (Qur’an 8:17)

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Perhaps one of the most fundamental things that sets the Ahl Haqq Wal Istiqama (The People of Truth and Steadfastness) is the issue of the integrity of the sacred sources. None more important than the foundation of our faith, the Qur’an.

One can say they love the Blessed Messenger (saw) with every fiber of their beings. One can say they are defenders and vanguard of the Sunnah of the Blessed Messenger (saw). However, all of that is an absolute façade if one cannot defend the integrity of the foundation of our faith; namely the Qur’an.

In fact one Sunni apologist whom is known for mostly engaging with Shi’i made a video exclaiming that the fact that chapters of the Qur’an were forgotten and the fact that people forgot it was a proof for it’s veracity and integrity! Can you Imagine!

This article is written to refute the very dangerous assertion by those sources of the Sunni denomination whom proclaim that the Qur’an that Muslims have today does not have the entirety of the Qur’an with in it!

Those particular sources of the Sunni denomination lead us to the following conclusions:

a) There are large portions of the Qur’an that are simply missing (because they were forgotten)!

b) There is some Qur’an that is not in the Qur’an that Muslims have today.

c) The Qur’an abrogates (over rides/cancels) other parts of the Qur’an.

d) That c leads to the concept of redundant revelation.

The position of such people that believe these concepts and sources are an accurate portrayal of our faith is that we do not have the whole of the Qur’an today but we simply have the Qur’an that Allah (swt) intended us to have. Read that again because such a position is extremely nuanced and slippery.

Before I begin I would like to say that I would consider myself a fairly open minded Muslim. I would also consider myself able to accept a wide range of opinions and views with in the Islamic tradition.

However, when it comes to anyone trying to undermine the revelation of the Qur’an and thus undermine Islam in the process I am not open to such a position. It is without doubt a major redline.

In fact when some of the early scholars were writing text on issues of creed I do not see how they left out this most important issue; namely that the total Qur’an has come down to us without being tampered with, intact, guarded, preserved.

I do not compromise on the position that the Qur’an is 100% complete. Now those scholars of the Sunni denomination may allege that I misrepresent their position.

They will claim that they too believe that the Qur’an is 100% complete and at the same time they will affirm all of the oral traditions below. This tongue and cheek approach is anything but sincere.  I believe in what Allah has said in the Qur’an.

1) Allah will guard the Qur’an.

2) None can change Allah’s words

3) Allah will collect, propagate and distribute the Qur’an.

4) Nothing Allah (swt) revealed is redundant.

The Qur’an itself claims it is easy to remember and itself is called the dhikr, that which is remembered, recalled.

“And We have certainly made the Quran easy to remember. So is there anyone who will be mindful?” (Qur’an 54:17)

“This (is) a Reminder. And indeed, for the righteous surely, is a good place of return.” (Qur’an 38: 49) 

So imagine that Allah (swt) has said the Qur’an is easy to remember and even calls the Qur’an something that is recalled. Yet, these people want to claim that even the Blessed Messenger (saw) forgot his revelation.

They will often cite the following as evidence:

“We will have you recite ˹the Quran, O  Prophet,˺ so you will not forget ˹any of it˺, unless Allah wills otherwise. He surely knows what is open and what is hidden.” (Qur’an 87: 6-7)

Some of the detractors focus on the part “unless Allah wills”.

First, it is important to understand that Allah’s will is not like a human will. If a human being wills something today that person may change their mind tomorrow, and when tomorrow comes they may again adopt a completely different idea.

Because exception by the Will of Allah comes in the Word of Allah to emphasize that what is reported happens by His Will (not otherwise). If he wills the opposite of that, it will be so. When Allah (swt) says that something happens if He wills it, it is intended to show His power and majesty because He has control over all things.

That is like in His saying, Exalted is He:

“We would have invented against Allah a lie if we returned to your religion after Allah had saved us from it. And it is not for us to return to it except what Allah wills. Our Lord has encompassed all things in knowledge. Upon Allah, we have relied. Our Lord, decide between us and our people in truth, and You are the best of those who give a decision.” (Qur’an 7:89)

We can see the phrase: ‘Except what Allah wills‘ above.

Does anyone think for a moment that the will of Allah (swt) that people leave Islam for their previous religion? Does anyone think, ‘Well you know there may be exceptions were Allah wants people to leave Islam and practice Shirk again!‘. It is an absolutely ridiculous idea.

Another example:

Certainly, has Allah showed to His Messenger the vision in truth. You will certainly enter al-Masjid al-Haram, if Allah wills, in safety, with your heads shaved and hair shortened, not fearing anyone. He knew what you did not know and has arranged before that a conquest near at hand.” (Qur’an 48:27)   

This verse cannot be construed that Allah (swt) will ‘change his mind‘ as Allah (swt) has already given his decision on this matter: “You will CERTAINLY enter.” 

Another example:

He will say, “The Fire is your residence, wherein you will abide eternally, except for what Allah wills. Indeed, your Lord is Wise and Knowing.” (Qur’an 6:128)

People use this to try and argue that people will not remain in the hellfire forever.

This is also clear from the following text:

“They would desire to go forth from the fire, and they shall not go forth from it, and they shall have a lasting punishment.” (Qur’an 5:37)

“Surely as for those who reject Our communications and turn away from them haughtily, the doors of heaven shall not be opened for them, nor shall they enter the garden until the camel pass through the eye of the needle; and thus do We reward the guilty.” (Qur’an 7:40)

So as we have seen ‘Except what Allah wills‘ can be seen as a rhetorical device.

They will also bring the following as evidence:

“We do not abrogate an ayat or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?” (Qur’an 2:106)

They are so certain that the word ‘ayat’ is used for the Qur’an itself rather than previous revelations or even miracles for that matter.

“There is no changing in the words of Allah.” (Qur’an 10:64)

So what about those who say what about the previous revelations? I have an article on that and Allah (swt) clearly told us in the Qur’an whom was responsible for safeguarding the previous revelations:

“Verily, It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (the Qur’an) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption) .” (Qur’an 15:9)

“…and the rabbis and the priest (judged according to their Scriptures), FOR TO THEM WAS ENTRUSTED THE PROTECTION OF THE BOOK OF ALLAH, and they were witnesses to it.” (Qur’an 5:44)

For those interested you may read my article: Is the Bible the Unadulterated Word of God?

https://primaquran.com/2022/10/04/is-the-bible-the-unadulterated-word-of-god/

So let us look at the claims contained with in Sunni sources.

The claims of Sayuti have mostly not been translated into English but remain in Arabic and other language sources.

The great Sunni Imam Sayuti claims records that

“It is reported from Ismail ibn Ibrahim from Ayyub from Naafi from Ibn Umar who said: “Let none of you say ‘I have full knowledge of the Quran’. How could he know what full knowledge of it is when much of the Quran has passed by him! Rather, let him say ‘I have acquired of the Qur’an that which is present.’”.

Source: (As-Suyuti, AlItqan fii Ulum al-Quran page 524)

‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with, her) reported that it had been revealed in the Qur’an that ten clear sucklings make the marriage unlawful, then it was abrogated (and substituted) by five sucklings and Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) died and it was before that time (found) in the Qur’an (and recited by the Muslims).

Source: https://sunnah.com/muslim:1452a

Abu Harb b. Abu al-Aswad reported on the authority of his father that Abu Musa al-Ash’ari sent for the reciters of Basra. They came to him and they were three hundred in number. They recited the Qur’an and he said:

You are the best among the inhabitants of Basra, for you are the reciters among them. So continue to recite it. (But bear in mind) that your reciting for a long time may not harden your hearts as were hardened the hearts of those before you. We used to recite a surah which resembled in length and severity to (Surah) Bara’at. I have, however, forgotten it with the exception of this which I remember out of it:” If there were two valleys full of riches, for the son of Adam, he would long for a third valley, and nothing would fill the stomach of the son of Adam but dust.” And we used so recite a surah which resembled one of the surahs of Musabbihat, and I have forgotten it, but remember (this much) out of it:” Oh people who believe, why do you say that which you do not practice” (lxi 2.) and” that is recorded in your necks as a witness (against you) and you would be asked about it on the Day of Resurrection” (xvii. 13).

Source: (https://sunnah.com/muslim:1050)

Abu Waqid al-Laithii said, “When the messenger of Allah (saw) received the revelation we would come to him and he would teach us what had been revealed. (I came) to him and he said ‘It was suddenly communicated to me one day: Verily Allah says, We sent down wealth to maintain prayer and deeds of charity, and if the son of Adam had a valley he would leave it in search for another like it and, if he got another like it, he would press on for a third, and nothing would satisfy the stomach of the son of Adam but dust, yet Allah is relenting towards those who relent.”

Source: (As-Suyuti, Al-Itqan fii Ulum al-Qur’an , p.525).

“We used to recite a surah similar to one of the Musabbihaat, and I no longer remember it but this much I have indeed preserved: ‘O you who truly believe why do you preach that which you do not practice?’ (and) ‘that is inscribed on your necks as a witness and you will be examined about it on the Day of Resurrection.’ 

Source: (as-Suyuti, Al-Itqan fii Ulum al-Qur’an, p.526).

“Yahya related to me from Malik from Zayd ibn Aslam from al-Qaqa ibn Hakim that Abu Yunus, the mawla of A’isha, umm al-muminin said, “A’isha ordered me to write out a Qur’an for her. She said, ‘When you reach this ayat, let me know, “Guard the prayers carefully and the middle prayer and stand obedient to Allah.”‘ When I reached it I told her, and she dictated to me, ‘Guard the prayers carefully and the middle prayer and the asr prayer and stand obedient to Allah.’ A’isha said, ‘I heard it from the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace.'”

Source: https://sunnah.com/malik/8/27

“Yahya related to me from Malik from Zayd ibn Aslam that Amr ibn Rafi said, “I was writing a Qur’an for Hafsa, umm al-muminin, and she said, ‘When you reach this ayat, let me know, “Guard the prayers carefully and the middle prayer and stand obedient to Allah.”‘ When I reached it I told her and she dictated to me, ‘Guard the prayers carefully and the middle prayer and the asr prayer and stand obedient to Allah.”

Source: (Malik’s Muwatta, Book 8, Number 8.8.27)

Prima Qur’an comments:

Let me ask you my Muslim brothers and sisters when you open up the Qur’an do you find “Guard the prayers carefully and the middle prayer and the asr prayer and stand obedient to Allah.” ?

https://www.islamawakened.com/index.php/qur-an  (just in case you do not have a Qur’an with you) Now for me the above are less serious as they can easily be attributed to a scribal error. People would often sit for long sessions taking information and transcribing. So I do not find the above to be truly problematic. However, it is a glaring reality that lone narrator reports do not necessarily convey absolute certainty.

Narrated Ibn `Abbas:

`Umar said, “I am afraid that after a long time has passed, people may say, “We do not find the Verses of the Rajam (stoning to death) in the Holy Book,” and consequently they may go astray by leaving an obligation that Allah has revealed. Lo! I confirm that the penalty of Rajam be inflicted on him who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if he is already married and the crime is proved by witnesses or pregnancy or confession.” Sufyan added, “I have memorized this narration in this way.” `Umar added, “Surely Allah’s Messenger (saw) carried out the penalty of Rajam, and so did we after him.”

Source: (https://sunnah.com/bukhari:6829)

Zirr ibn Hubaish reported: “Ubayy ibn Ka’b said to me, ‘What is the extent of Suratul-Ahzab? ‘I said, ‘Seventy or seventy-three verses’. He said, ‘Yet it used to be equal to Suratul-Baqarah and in it we recited the verse of stoning’. I said, ‘And what is the verse of stoning’? He replied, ‘The fornicators among the married men ( ash-shaikh)) and married women (ash-shaikhah), stone them as an exemplary punishment from Allah, and Allah is Mighty and Wise.”‘

Source: (As-Suyuti, Al-Itqan fii Ulum al-Qur’an , p.524).

The other issue is that scholars of the Sunni have adopted a theological position which states that the Qur’an is eternal.

You can see another Sunni Muslim apologist outline that position below.

http://sunnianswers.wordpress.com/2012/08/17/clarity-on-the-different-sayings-about-the-quraan/

Why I bring this up is that the Sunni Muslim scholars hold to the doctrine of abrogation.

So now we have a Qur’an that is both eternal that contains verses that abrogate each other?

Welcome to the very weird theological position of eternal abrogation!  This is as weird a theological position as the Christian claim of ‘eternally begotten’.   How are you going to be eternal and begotten at the same time?  How is the Qur’an going to be eternal and abrogated simultaneously?  Odd, very odd indeed.

How could you have an eternal perfect revelation that is at the same time replaced by other eternal revelation that is either similar to or superior than it?

But this is where it gets very messy.

I could very well see them making the counter claim.  “No brother you see all the verses are eternal, what you don’t understand is that they were revealed in different sequences.”

Yet, the Allah (swt) says in the Qur’an:

“Do they not consider the Qur’an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy.” (Qur’an 4:82)

The idea that the Qur’an would contain eternal redundant revelation is both blasphemous and cause for pensive reflection

Prima Qur’an Conclusion:

The ideas that the sources of the Sunni denomination are propagating that the Qur’an does not contain the entire Qur’an I feel greatly undermines the preservation, and veracity of the text of the Qur’an.

Perhaps more than any other view on aqidah it is this belief that separates the Ibadi perspective from that of the Sunni perspective (with dissenting voices) as mentioned.

It puts the ultimate weapon in the hands of the detractors of faith to tear down the entirety of Islam.

The sources of the Sunni denomination have no moral ground, and in fact no justification to lift a pen in the defense of Islam, do a radio or television program, or write an article or book  to defend this great faith because it is all done in vain.

Why on Earth Princess Leia would hand over plans to the death star to the empire, and than claim she has the best interest of the rebellion at heart is beyond me!

As a follow up I need to write an entry for the following. (Allah-willing)

a) showing the problematic nature of believing the Qur’an to be eternal.

https://primaquran.com/2023/04/09/the-quran-is-created-4/

b) refuting the idea that the Qur’an abrogates itself.

https://primaquran.com/2022/10/04/why-abrogation-in-the-quran-is-a-false-doctrine/

I leave you with the supreme words of the Creator.

Those who distort Our revelations are not hidden from Us. Is one who is thrown into Hell better, or one who comes secure on the Day of Resurrection? Do whatever you wish; He is Seer of what you do. Those who have rejected the Reminder when it came to them; and it is an Honorable Book. No falsehood could enter it, presently or afterwards; a revelation from One Most Wise, Praiseworthy. (Qur’an 41:40-42)

Moses said to them: “Woe to you, do not invent lies about God, else the retribution will take you, and miserable is the one who invents.” (Qur’an 20:61)

May Allah Guide the Ummah.

May Allah Forgive the Ummah.

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July 16, 2023 · 8:07 pm

Is Dr. Ali Ataie of Zaytuna a Flat-Earther?

“Verily! In the creation of the heavens and the earth, and in the alternation of night and day, there are indeed signs for men of understanding.” (Qur’an 3:190)

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There has been circulating around social media a recent talk done by Dr. Ali Ataie of Zaytuna institute. It looks as if he was defending the concept that the earth is circular and flat rather than circular and spherical.

Note: This article has been updated as of 20/7/2023 in light of new developments. Please see the end of this article.

This seems to have spread from the venue of a YouTube channel for MCC East Bay and then quickly deleted.

This is the video that was deleted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqzD1ZkAJn8

Deleting the video was a bad move to begin with. Why?

Because it looks as if something was being covered up and, quite naturally, it got thinking people curious. The title of the video itself could go either way. Meaning Dr. Ataie could be discussing competing views while sharing his own. Or, Dr. Ataie could be sharing competing views while debunking another view.

The video title says: “Views on the Shape of the Earth: Flat Earth & Geocentrism| Dr. Ali Ataie“

Interestingly, the pro-Zionist, MEMRI channel picked up on this with lightning speed! MEMRI was co-founded by former Israeli military intelligence officer Yigal Carmon and Israeli-American political scientist Meyrav Wurmser.

You can see the video clip above:

Now some who do not think Dr. Ali Ataie was promoting flat earth may ask “Where is the time stamp where he says the Earth is flat?” In fact, Dr. Abdullah bin Hamid Ali posted this on his Twitter feed:

Three things to note from this:

  1. “I was just raising some common arguments that flat earthers raise.” Which is not a denial that he is a flat-earther.
  2. “Notice I never said that I believed in the flat earth.” But he never said he didn’t either.
  3. “My position is always Allah Alim, it’s not essential to me either way.”

Also, the talk went very quickly into free-mason territory. Everyone from Sir Isaac Newton being a knighted Freemason occultist, to around 94% of astronauts being Freemasons to Neil deGrasse Tyson.

These are the type of things you would want to seed in the minds of the population if you wanted to say there was a massive effort to distort reality.

Now that being said, we want to say what our position is. We personally will stop using the terminology “conspiracy theory”. We believe such terminology is created by those who do not want us to think. Yes, indeed there are conspiracies. Not all conspiracies are nefarious. People could conspire to throw a colleague a surprise party, for example.

Yet, we do not believe in labeling things as conspiracy as a pejorative to shut down a particular view point.

Every theory is a theory that merits rigorous principles of logic, investigation, reflection and experimentation where possible.

In fact, we find it strange that those people who consider themselves skeptics or open-minded do not welcome the exploration of all theories.

So, for us it is all on the table.

Did the moon landing happen? Was JFK an inside job? Is COVID-19 a massive data collection ploy and a means to boost the revenue of big pharma?

Just look at these sensational headlines:

https://nypost.com/2023/07/15/rfk-jr-says-covid-was-ethnically-targeted-to-spare-jews/

Maybe it is plausible that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is a plant that said what he said to make anyone who challenged the official narrative of covid-19 look like anti-Jewish quack.

Who knows anymore!

There is something that strikes a cord with what Dr. Ali Ataie said, though that merits pensive reflection:

“If we are on a flat surface and all the stars and planets go around us, then this is clearly designed for us. Someone put us on a pedestal. But by insisting that we are all apes, living on some random planet, going around the sun, in the corner of some random galaxy among billions of others, then we are easier to control by people in power. They can convince us that our lives are all about dunya, and to obey them, not God” — Dr. Ataie

Now let us suspend judgement for half a second. If, for the sake of argument, that model of the Earth was/is true, it would be such, in your face, evidence that we really are a special creation that one would have to have veils upon veils of darkness upon them to deny Allah.

May Allah (swt) guide us to what is beloved to Allah (swt).

We have two other related articles on the subject you, the reader may be interested in:

“The Qur’an teaches that the Earth is flat” -Sam Gerrans (Qur’an Only Advocate)
The Qur’an and the Setting of the Sun in a Murky Spring

This article has been updated as of 20/7/2023 in light of new developments.

Dr. Ali Ataie has unequivocally stated that he is not a flat earther!

Because this does not help either brother Ataie. People will wonder

“Wallahi, anyone who calls me a flat earther is a liar.” -Dr. Ali Ataie

“I am not a flat earther.” -Dr. Ali Ataie

“But I am not a flat earther.” -Dr. Ali Ataie

Prima Qur’an comments:

Dr. Ataie states:

“The article by memri is an inaccurate hit piece written by a Zionist organization.”

Hence, the reason why the video should not have been deleted by MCC East Bay. Because that video would have provided much needed context, if any. However, we are the ones that pointed out that this organization (MEMRI) is run by Zionists, and we were also amazed at how quickly that organization picked up on some small discussion which was not at a convention or even well advertised. Dr. Ataie is not really all that well known. I do not mean that as a slight. Really makes you wonder who is who in our Muslim community. How did that organization(MEMRI) get that material and publish it ?

That being said, it would help if MCC East Bay did not delete the video. Because, on the one hand, Dr. Ataie is saying:

“The article by memri is an inaccurate hit piece written by a Zionist organization.”

While also stating:

“I made several ill-advised off-the-cuff comments during a random Q &A…”

“It was not wise to make those comments and cause confusion.”

We really, really wish Dr. Ataie wouldn’t have made that statement: “is an inaccurate hit piece.” The rest of his statement is absolutely fine.

However, by making that comment, Muslims are now going to wonder why the original video was deleted and if it would be made public and this has the potential to lend credibility to that cursed organization (Memri). That is if nothing was taken out of context.

Dr. Abdullah Bin Hamid Ali, who meant well by defending his friend, most likely triggered more people by tweeting a flurry of controversial tweets.

Views should be weighed by the evidence and the arguments.

That being said, we do not think that Dr. Abdullah, Dr. Ataie or anyone for that matter should be castigated for having views that others find that go against mainstream scientific convictions.

Naturally, some Muslims chimed in and rightfully mentioned that much of this could have been clarified from the first post.

The problem with this clarification is that it comes down to a situation of damned if you do and damned if you do not. So, because Dr. Ataie brought up the free masons, some flat Earthers who support Dr. Ataie (based upon their presumptions of his own views) are now going to think that Dr. Ataie is caving in to pressure from such groups. They fail to realize that Dr. Ataie was simply sharing their perspective without necessarily endorsing it.

People, it is not easy to be in the public eye.

Our sincere advice to Muslim speakers. Whoever is recording such public events should give full disclosure to the one being recorded and be completely transparent with them on how and where the contents are to be released.

Conclusion: Dr. Ali Ataie has not retracted or recanted anything. To recant or retract would be to state something and then change positions. He never claimed he was a flat earther. He has simply clarified in no uncertain terms. He is not a flat earther.

As regards those Muslims who associate with and support Zionist and Zionist supporters.

May Allah guide you! May Allah (swt) free Palestine and either guide or crush the oppressors! Amin

May Allah Guide the Ummah.

May Allah Forgive the Ummah.

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October 4, 2022 · 2:11 am

Attacks upon Sahih hadith by Sufi Leaning Ashari Theologians

“And Noah called to his Lord and said, “My Lord, indeed MY SON IS OF MY FAMILY (AHLI)and indeed, Your promise is true; and You are the most just of judges! He said, “O NOAH, INDEED HE IS NOT OF YOUR (AHLIKA) FAMILY; indeed, he is one whose work was other than righteous, so ask Me not for that about which you have no knowledge. Indeed, I advise you, lest you be among the ignorant. Noah said, “My Lord, I seek refuge in You from asking that of which I have no knowledge. And unless You forgive me and have mercy upon me, I will be among the losers.”(Qur’an 11:45-47)

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We are often told that our presuppositions may preclude us from being fair in accessing certain hadith traditions. That we would approach the text with our own suppositions. I don’t disagree with this statement. The real point is who doesn’t approach something with their own suppositions?

However, I think the point is we all approach any situation with our own suppositions. The point is to be mindful of this, and know when it may impede our ability to look at something from a different perspective, or not.

What better example than the attacks upon ‘sahih’ -ahadith found in the collection of Muslim, by those who hold to the Ashari theological school.

In particular, things that the ‘Sufi‘ find troubling about the following sahih hadith. As well as those who have been affected by the Shia-fication of Sunnism as follows:

Narrated from Anas (ra) that a man said: “O Messenger of Allah, where is my father?” He said: “In Hell.” When he turned away he called him back and said: “My father and your father are in Hell.”

Source: (https://sunnah.com/muslim/1/408)

Some may say why even talk about this subject? It is bad manners?

The very people who say that, are the very people themselves who have brought the topic up.

There is actually no good reason to reject this hadith. The only reason to reject this hadith is based upon an emotional attachment to the ‘Ahl Bayt‘ and to the family of the Blessed Prophet (saw).

“Say, [O Muhammed], “If your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your wives, your relatives, wealth which you have obtained, commerce wherein you fear decline, and dwellings with which you are pleased are more beloved to you than Allah and His Messenger and jihad in His cause, then wait until Allah executes His command. And Allah does not guide the defiantly disobedient people.” (Qur’an 9:29)

If this is the state of faith that Muslims are to have in regards to Allah (swt) It is certain that the Blessed Messenger (saw) had this state of faith, a state of faith that none of us would pale in comparison to.

There is also the reality that hellfire is real. That some people will go to hellfire. Those people will be other people’s fathers, mothers, sons, daughters, brothers, and sisters. All of us live with the reality that either ourselves or our most beloved family will not be in paradise.

With the Blessed Messenger (saw) making that statement about his father, it makes the Blessed Prophet (saw) very relatable to our grievances.

Now the “Sufis” will go on and on about knowledge of the unseen that the Blessed Messenger (saw) is said to have had.

However, when it comes to something like this they simply cannot accept that the Blessed Messenger (saw) may have had some insight into what happened to His (saw) parents; albeit a very painful insight.

The same people will go absolutely ballistic when anyone challenges their Sahih hadith canons, but themselves will pull out all the stops when they come across something that goes against their presuppositions.

It is worth it to watch the entire video presentation of Dr. Jonathan Brown. However, for the purpose of this entry, it would suffice to watch from @42:50, to see exactly what I am talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_r1GhCQGf9w

At @43:50 Dr. Jonathan Brown takes liberties by saying ‘there is an important principle in Islam that in order to be accountable for anything you have to have knowledge‘.

First, it should be very clear what he is about to present to the audience is not necessarily the position of ‘Islam’. It is a position of creed, one that a certain group of Muslims with their own presuppositions hold to.

Basically what Dr. Jonathan Brown is doing is expounding upon a position in the Ashari theological school. (Albeit in a very superficial manner)

They assume that just because people have not heard about Islam, these people would automatically enter into paradise.

In other words, if divine guidance has not come to you, you will automatically enter paradise.

Think of the implications of that for a moment. Now, if your going to talk about justice this creedal position of the Ashari turns the justice of Allah (swt) into a cosmic comedy.

Why?

Well, how is it fair for people who have been exposed to Islam entered into it and possibly still end up in hell?

Whereas it would have been more preferable (I mean we are talking about eternity here) for said people to have never heard about Islam, and enter into heaven automatically, simply by virtue of the fact of not receiving guidance.

So if you do not receive divine guidance you automatically enter into heaven?

However, if you do hear about divine guidance and reject it you will go to hell.

In General: Assurance of salvation is not a doctrine in Islam.

Then if you embrace the divine guidance you have a 50/50 chance of going to heaven/hell.

Something seems very inconsistent here.

As educated and eloquent as Dr. Jonathan Brown is he gives an example. What that would be relatable to the Ashari school. He gives the example about ‘the man living in a remote part of Nebraska‘.

So you mean to tell us this man who lives in a remote part of Nebraska and never heard about Islam, or even had an adequate presentation of Islam delivered to him, can steal from his mother, rape a child, rob a bank, never pay back any of his loans, constantly lie, beat his wife and lead an overall horrible life and he will enter heaven?

Whereas countless Muslims all of the world are trying their utmost to have a relationship with their Creator and to fulfill the commands as they understand them, in a sea of competing sects and schism, and then there is a very likely chance that they could end up in hell?

Does that honestly make any sense to anyone at all?

Notice Dr. Jonathan Brown says @45:13 “God will judge them on the day of judgement like God judges everybody“

So why would God judge them? If they would automatically enter into heaven? If God judges them than doesn’t that mean they stand a chance to be condemned?

If they do stand the chance to be condemned than the Ashari needs to explain based upon what.

Apologies to the readers, as I digress.

However, this is fundamentally important to the discussion, because it is an ironclad proof! It is an ironclad proof from within that if those from the Ashari school find something that goes against their presuppositions they will discard a hadith!

Gibril Fouad Haddad is a modern scholar who gave a lengthy apologetic response to the issue in pages 51-64 of his book “The Four Imams and Their Schools“

Which by the way if you don’t have that book you absolutely should buy it. You should buy everything written by Gibril Fouad Haddad for that matter. He has absolute astute attention to detail. He is in our view one of the most, candid and truthful traditonalist scholars in our time. Surely he will receive his reward with his Lord.

In the pages of his book, there are some eye-opening admissions. His book also contains his own biases and leanings for example:

Mulla ‘Ali al-Qari and his Minah Al-Rawd Al-Azhar, commentary on Al-Fiqh Al-Akbar is simply thrown under the bus.

Shaykh Haddad states:

“Mulla Ali al-Qari claimed in Sharh al-Fiqh Al Akbar, Mu’taqad Abu Hanifa, and Shar al-Shifa that Imam Abu Hanifa said, “The parents of the Prophet (saw) died as disbelievers.” and that this was the Maturidi position. He was refuted harshly by his student, the Faqih and Friend of Allah, Imam Abd al-Qadir ibn Muhammed ibn Ahmad al Tabari, during the latter’s lessons in the Makkan Sanctuary, Al-Qari died in Makka shortly after those lectures from a bad fall-May Allah have mercy on him and forgive him. Shaykh Ibrahim al-Halabi, the Hanafi faqih, held the same view as Mulla Ali al-Qari as well as does al-Azim Abadi in AAwn al-Mabud.” (pg 51 The Four Imams and Their Schools)

The innuendo is certainly not subtle at all.

“Al-Qari died in Makka shortly after those lectures from a bad fall-May Allah have mercy on him and forgive him.”

The implication is Allah (swt) made the learned scholar, Mulla Ali al-Qari die from a bad fall for simply repeating what he found attributed to Imam Abu Hanifa.

Is what is attributed to Imam Abu Hanifa a forgery?

Shaykh Haddad quotes Dr. Inayatullah Iblagh al-Afghani in the 1987 2nd edition of his published doctoral thesis titled ‘al-Imam al-A’zam Abu Hanifa al-Mutakallim (“The Greatest Imam, Abu Hanifa, the Theologian”), said:

“Regarding the text [of al-Fiqh al-Akbar] we find in some of them: “and the two parents of the Prophet (saw) died according to pristine disposition” (mata ala al-fitra), In some others, it is: “did not die as disbelievers” (ma mata ala al-kufr) while in others yet, we find: “died as disbelievers” (mata ala-al kufr)”

Shaykh Haddad continues: The erudite scholar al-Kawthari noted that the word fitra can be easily altered to read kufr in Kufic Arabic calligraphy. It is highly probable, therefore, that the copy with “died according to pristine disposition” was changed to “died disbelievers.” The original reading implies that the Greatest Imam was arguing against those who adduce the hadith; “My father and your father are both in Hellfire.” (pg 57 The Four Imams and Their Schools.”

So now let us think about this claim.

The text could read:

did not die as disbelievers/did not die in pristine disposition

or

could read died as disbelievers/died according to pristine disposition.

Now, we can’t assume that the version that Shaykh Hadad prefers is the original version. Especially if it simply a copyist error. However, something that was not pondered upon at all is the possibility of forgery. The reason I believe this was not discussed is that to discuss forgery we need to discuss a motive. We have a high motive for someone to change the text from disbeliever to pristine disposition. However, what possible motive would any Muslim have for changing the text from pristine disposition to disbeliever?

Let us look at some other evidence that shows contrary to what some people desire that relatives of the Blessed Messenger (saw) were indeed people who do not make it to paradise.

“The daughter of Abu Lahab, Subay’a came to the Messenger of Allah (saw) and said, “Messenger of Allah!” The people are calling me the daughter of the Fuel of the Hellfire! The Messenger of Allah (saw) stood angry and said on the pulpit: “What is the matter with the people that harm me in my relatives? Whoever harms my relatives harms me, and whoever harms me has harmed Allah!”

Source: (Narrated from Ibn ‘Umar, Abu Hurayra, and Ammar bin Yasir by Ibn Abi ‘Asim in al-Ahad wal-Mathani (5:470 & 3165).

“May the hands of Abu Lahab be ruined, and ruined is he.” (Qur’an 111:1)

Did Allah (swt) find it insensitive to name someone’s father as a resident of hellfire?

Ali himself said that Abu Bakr is the only Companion to have both parents, Abu Quhafa and Umm al-Khayr enter Islam.

Sources: (Aisha by Malik in Muwatta, Ibn Sa’d (3:194-195) Al-Bayhaqi in Al-Sunan al-Kubra (6:169-170 & 11728, 6:178 & 11784, 6:257 & 12267, Abd Al-Razzaq (9;101) , Al-Tahawi in Sharh Ma’ani al-Athar (4:880, Istiab (4:1807), Nasb (2:630), al-Lalika’i in Karamat al-Awliya (p 117), al-Mizzi in Tadhib al-Kamal (35:380) and Muhhib al-Din al-Tabari in al-Riyad al-Nadira (2:122-123 & 576)

Narrated by Al Musaiyab:

“When Abu Talib’s death approached, the Prophet went to him while Abu Jahl and ‘Abdullah bin Abi Umaiya were present with him. The Prophet said, “O uncle, say: None has the right to be worshipped except Allah, so that I may argue for your case with it before Allah.” On that, Abu Jahl and ‘Abdullah bin Abu Umaiya said, “O Abu Talib! Do you want to renounce ‘Abdul Muttalib’s religion?” Then the Prophet said, “I will keep on asking (Allah for) forgiveness for you unless I am forbidden to do so.” Then there was revealed: ‘It is not fitting for the Prophet and those who believe that they should invoke (Allah) for forgiveness for pagans even though they are of kin after it has become clear to them that they are companions of the Fire.’ (9.113)”

Source: (https://sunnah.com/bukhari:1360)

The point being is that all of these groups and factions you are hard-pressed to find anyone to be consistent.

People will attack Shaykh Nasir Ad-Deen Al Abani because he said that Bukhari itself was bound to have mistakes.

However, the same people in our humble opinion apply double standards. They use their own presuppositions to evaluate the truthfulness of a text even if it said hadith is within the category of something deemed ‘sahih’ -sound!

“O you who have believed, why do you say what you do not do?” (Qur’an 61:2)

It is not for the Prophet and those who have believed to ask forgiveness for the polytheists, even if they were relatives after it has become clear to them that they are companions of Hellfire.” (Qur’an 9:113)

So extreme are these presuppositions concerning that the father of the Prophet (saw) that these same people have taken some strange approaches concerning the father of Prophet Ibrahim (as)

You may read about that here:

Do Sunni Muslims believe animals can go to hell?

You may also be interested in reading the following:

Are The Prophets Parents In Hell? – Dr Shaykh Abdullah al-Mu’ammari.

May Allah (swt) guide the Ummah!

May Allah (swt) Forgive the Ummah!

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May 21, 2022 · 11:17 am

Do Salafiyya truly believe that Allah chuckles and laughs at the despair of the Palestinians?

Say, “My Lord has only forbidden immoralities – what is apparent of them and what is concealed – and sin, and oppression without right, and that you associate with Allah that for which He has not sent down authority, and that you say about Allah that which you do not know.” (Qur’an 7:33) 

ALLAH LAUGHS AT THE DESPAIR OF HIS SLAVES?

Waki’ bin Hudus narrated that his paternal uncle Abu Razin said:

“The Messenger of Allah said: ‘Allah laughs at the despair of His slaves although He soon changes it.’ I said: ‘O Messenger of Allah, does the Lord laugh?’ He said: ‘Yes.’ I said: ‘We shall never be deprived of good by a Lord Who laughs.'”

Source: (https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah:181)

“The Messenger of Allah said: Allah chuckles at the despair of His slaves although He soon changes it.’
I said: ‘O Messenger of Allah, does the Lord chuckle?’ ‘He said: ‘Yes.’ I said: ‘We shall never be deprived of good by a Lord Who chuckles.”

Now if we take this hadith alone it is challenging to suggest that chuckling/laughing can be interpreted as Mercy. Because, even the companion ask, ‘Does Allah chuckle?’ and it would be difficult to imagine the companion asking, ‘Does the Lord show Mercy’. I mean we recite the Qur’an as bismillah ir rahman ir raheem. Most Merciful and Most Compassionate.

However, this is a lone narrator report. We in Ahl Haqq Wal Istiqamah (The Ibadi School) we do not make lone narrator reports as a basis for our faith. What we do is look at other ahadith where these idioms are used to show if there is other meanings.

If we are to take this lone narrator report at the apparent meaning as the Salafi -Athari suggest than it means that Allah (swt) is laughing, chuckling etc at the despair and pain that humanity undergoes.

It takes a depraved human being and a twisted imagination to suggest that Allah (swt) would have a hearty chuckle at the despair and misery of humanity.

Children being sexually abused by their parents.

People starting to death in this world.

You going to say that Allah (swt) is laughing/chuckling at this?!

Furthermore does this laughing and chuckling produce a sound such that we can say that it is uncreated? Such that one can imagine an eternal chuckling and laughing at the despair, torture and pain of a creation that has yet to be created?

We wonder why people are Atheist?

Either the people who invent such falsehoods have a very low estimation of the Divine, or the Creator they worship is more horribly morbid than the darkest corner of human imagination could fathom.

However, because this hadith is graded as ‘Hasan’ those who take the lone narrator reports will insist,

We believe that Allah chuckles/laughs …with the disclaimer (in a way that befits his majesty!

“It has been narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said:  Allah chuckles at the two men both of whom will enter Paradise (though) one of them kills the other. They said: Messenger of Allah, how is it? He said: One of them fights in the way of Allah, the Almighty, and Exalted. and dies a martyr. Then Allah turns in mercy to the murderer who embraces Islam, fights in the way of Allah, the Almighty, and Exalted, and dies a martyr.”  (‘Sahih’ Muslim Kitab Al-Imara hadith number 4658)

Source: (https://sunnah.com/muslim:1890a)

If we understand the mention about Allah (swt) chuckling as his act of Mercy than this is not a problem. It is an idiom or an expression.

However, if as some in the Muslim community do (ever ready to kick every one else out of Islam), insist that we have to take this at the apparent meaning it is very dark.

These kinds of hadiths are reminiscent of the stuff attributed to Allah (swt) in the Bible.

“And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.” (Exodus 32:14)

“The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.” (Genesis 6:6)

So we would take the two hadith and combine them and our understanding would be the laughing/chuckling as an idiom or expression of Allah’s mercy that is soon to follow any act of despair, as long as the people put their tawakkul (trust) in Allah (swt).

“Say, “O My servants who have transgressed against themselves, do not despair of the mercy of Allah. Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful.” (Qur’an 39:53)

May Allah (swt) Forgive the Ummah.

May Allah (swt) Guide the Ummah.

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