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Dr. Ali Ataie and his understanding of شُبِّهَ لَهُمْ (shubbiha lahum) Qur’an 4:157

“And for their saying, “Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.” And they did not kill him nor did they impale (ṣalabūhu) him; (وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ وَمَا صَلَبُوهُ وَلَٰكِنْ شُبِّهَ لَهُمْ)but it was made to appear to them so. Those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no certain knowledge of it, but only follow conjecture. For certainly, they did not kill him.”  (Qur’an 4:157)

As mentioned before we do a tight textual analsysis of the Qur’an in order to reach the correct understanding. This is done by comparing a word with all other instances of that word in the Qur’an. This is done by also comparing the context of verses with their surrounding verses. This is known as  Tafsir al-Quran bi-l-Quran. (Interpreting the Qur’an by the Qur’an)

In a discussion on Blogging Theology titled: “Jesus was not crucified: the evidence with Dr. Ali Ataie.” Dr. Ali Ataie made some very interesting assertions. Assertions which move him closer to our position.

@40:28 Dr. Ataie states: “But I do believe that myth and legend has probably soo permeated the gospel accounts of Jesus passion narratives that it is not at all beyond reason to dismiss them completely as historical fiction!”

Prima-Qur’an comments: Allahu Akbar! there you go Dr. Ataie now that is the ticket!
Than the idea that someone was “crucified” is likely based upon what? Myth and legend.

Dr. Ataie gets into his understanding of: Qur’an 4:157 “It was made to appear to them so.

@53:38 “They did not have information. It did not come from a reliable source.”
@54:11 “Jews and Christians ended up following hearsay reports about some crucifixion event from non eye-witnesses….”

Prima-Qur’an comments: Dr. Ataie state: ” “Jews and Christians ended up following hearsay reports about some crucifixion event from non eye-witnesses….”

I would replace some words in the above sentence: “Jews and Christians ended up following hearsay reports about some imaplement event from non eye-witnesses….

“Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), (Galatians 3:13)

  1. Paul is quoting from a text that mentions a post mortem suspension punishment. The individual is killed first and while dead then supsended. Christians understand the Crucifixion as an ante mortem suspension punishment where the person is killed via asphyxiation while alive and being suspended.

This is exactly what shubbiha lahum means. It is not shubi ha alayhim!

In fact because we love you the readers insh’Allah I will give you a sneak peak at one of the slides that Shaykh Hilal and I are working on.

No pay wall and no gate keeping information!

This is the critical linguistic and contextual refinement. This is a far more precise reading of the phrase شُبِّهَ لَهُمْ (shubbiha lahum) and the verses that follow.

From the Ibadi perspective and reading of the verse the point fundamentally shifts the understanding of the verse from a narrative about a visual illusion in real-time to a critique of a historical claim based on unreliable transmission. Let’s integrate this correction.

The Correct Understanding of Point 4:167

The phrase وَ لٰكِنْ شُبِّهَ لَهُمْ (“but it was made to appear so to them”) does not describe a miraculous event witnessed by onlookers in real time. Instead, it critiques the oral tradition and historical narrative that the Jewish community subsequent to the event had come to believe and propagate.

The Qur’an’s own subsequent words completely invalidate the possibility of this being an eye-witness account:

  • إِنَّ الَّذِينَ اخْتَلَفُوا فِيهِ لَفِي شَكٍّ مِنْهُ – “Indeed, those who differ over it are surely in doubt about it.” (4:157)
    • Doubt (شَكٍّ – shakk) is impossible for someone who witnessed an execution firsthand.
  • مَا لَهُمْ بِهِ مِنْ عِلْمٍ – “They have no knowledge of it.” (4:157)
    • Knowledge (عِلْمٍ – ‘ilm) is exactly what an eye-witness would claim to have.
  • إِنْ يَتَّبِعُونَ إِلَّا الظَّنَّ – “They follow not except assumption.” (4:157)
    • Assumption (الظَّنَّ – al-ẓann) is the antithesis of eye-witness testimony.

A Hadith that is classified as الظَّنَّ (al-ẓann), meaning “conjectural” or “of presumptive status,” and comes from a lone narrator (or a single strand of transmission) is known as a Khabar al-Āḥād (خبر الآحاد).

Here’s a detailed breakdown:

Definition: A Khabar al-Āḥād is a report (Hadith) that does not reach the highest level of mass transmission (Mutawātir). It is narrated by one or a few individuals at any stage of its chain of narration (isnad), such that the number of narrators does not generate absolute, certain knowledge (ilm al-yaqīn) in the listener. Instead, it generates presumptive knowledge (ilm al-ẓannī), which is sufficient for action but is theoretically open to doubt.

Therefore, the Qur’an is not describing a supernatural trickery of the senses that happened in the past. It is describing the state of the received narrative in the present tense of its revelation.

The chain of meaning, according to this corrected interpretation, is:

  1. The Claim: A specific Jewish community (contemporary to the Prophet Muhammed or just prior) boasts, “We killed the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, the messenger of Allah.” This is their historical claim.
  2. The Denial: The Qur’an flatly denies this: “And they did not kill him, nor did they impale him (وَ مَا صَلَبُوهُ).”
  3. The Explanation for the False Claim: How did this false claim arise? The event was “made to appear to them (شُبِّهَ لَهُمْ)” in their oral traditions and historical accounts. The truth was obscured within their own narrative.
  4. The Proof of the Falsehood: The proof that this claim is a baseless tradition and not established fact is that those who argue over it are in doubt, devoid of certain knowledge, and following only assumptions about what truly happened. True eye-witnesses to a capital punishment would not be in a state of doubt and conjecture; they would be certain.

You may also be interested in reading:

May Allah Guide the Ummah.

May Allah Forgive the Ummah.

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Is Dr. Ali Ataie of Zaytuna a Flat-Earther?

“Verily! In the creation of the heavens and the earth, and in the alternation of night and day, there are indeed signs for men of understanding.” (Qur’an 3:190)

﷽ 

There has been circulating around social media a recent talk done by Dr. Ali Ataie of Zaytuna institute. It looks as if he was defending the concept that the earth is circular and flat rather than circular and spherical.

Note: This article has been updated as of 20/7/2023 in light of new developments. Please see the end of this article.

This seems to have spread from the venue of a YouTube channel for MCC East Bay and then quickly deleted.

This is the video that was deleted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqzD1ZkAJn8

Deleting the video was a bad move to begin with. Why?

Because it looks as if something was being covered up and, quite naturally, it got thinking people curious. The title of the video itself could go either way. Meaning Dr. Ataie could be discussing competing views while sharing his own. Or, Dr. Ataie could be sharing competing views while debunking another view.

The video title says: “Views on the Shape of the Earth: Flat Earth & Geocentrism| Dr. Ali Ataie

Interestingly, the pro-Zionist, MEMRI channel picked up on this with lightning speed! MEMRI was co-founded by former Israeli military intelligence officer Yigal Carmon and Israeli-American political scientist Meyrav Wurmser.

You can see the video clip above:

Now some who do not think Dr. Ali Ataie was promoting flat earth may ask “Where is the time stamp where he says the Earth is flat?” In fact, Dr. Abdullah bin Hamid Ali posted this on his Twitter feed:

Three things to note from this:

  1. I was just raising some common arguments that flat earthers raise.” Which is not a denial that he is a flat-earther.
  2. “Notice I never said that I believed in the flat earth.” But he never said he didn’t either.
  3. My position is always Allah Alim, it’s not essential to me either way.”

Also, the talk went very quickly into free-mason territory. Everyone from Sir Isaac Newton being a knighted Freemason occultist, to around 94% of astronauts being Freemasons to Neil deGrasse Tyson.

These are the type of things you would want to seed in the minds of the population if you wanted to say there was a massive effort to distort reality.

Now that being said, we want to say what our position is. We personally will stop using the terminology “conspiracy theory”. We believe such terminology is created by those who do not want us to think. Yes, indeed there are conspiracies. Not all conspiracies are nefarious. People could conspire to throw a colleague a surprise party, for example.

Yet, we do not believe in labeling things as conspiracy as a pejorative to shut down a particular view point.

Every theory is a theory that merits rigorous principles of logic, investigation, reflection and experimentation where possible.

In fact, we find it strange that those people who consider themselves skeptics or open-minded do not welcome the exploration of all theories.

So, for us it is all on the table.

Did the moon landing happen? Was JFK an inside job? Is COVID-19 a massive data collection ploy and a means to boost the revenue of big pharma?

Just look at these sensational headlines:

https://nypost.com/2023/07/15/rfk-jr-says-covid-was-ethnically-targeted-to-spare-jews/

Maybe it is plausible that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is a plant that said what he said to make anyone who challenged the official narrative of covid-19 look like anti-Jewish quack.

Who knows anymore!

There is something that strikes a cord with what Dr. Ali Ataie said, though that merits pensive reflection:

“If we are on a flat surface and all the stars and planets go around us, then this is clearly designed for us. Someone put us on a pedestal. But by insisting that we are all apes, living on some random planet, going around the sun, in the corner of some random galaxy among billions of others, then we are easier to control by people in power. They can convince us that our lives are all about dunya, and to obey them, not God” — Dr. Ataie

Now let us suspend judgement for half a second. If, for the sake of argument, that model of the flat Earth was/is true, it would be such, in your face, evidence that we really are a special creation that one would have to have veils upon veils of darkness upon them to deny Allah.

May Allah (swt) guide us to what is beloved to Allah (swt).

We have two other related articles on the subject you, the reader may be interested in:

This article has been updated as of 20/7/2023 in light of new developments.

Dr. Ali Ataie has unequivocally stated that he is not a flat earther!

Because this does not help either brother Ataie. People will wonder

“Wallahi, anyone who calls me a flat earther is a liar.” -Dr. Ali Ataie

“I am not a flat earther.” -Dr. Ali Ataie

“But I am not a flat earther.” -Dr. Ali Ataie

Prima Qur’an comments:

Dr. Ataie states:

“The article by memri is an inaccurate hit piece written by a Zionist organization.”

Hence, the reason why the video should not have been deleted by MCC East Bay. Because that video would have provided much needed context, if any. However, we are the ones that pointed out that this organization (MEMRI) is run by Zionists, and we were also amazed at how quickly that organization picked up on some small discussion which was not at a convention or even well advertised. Dr. Ataie is not really all that well known. I do not mean that as a slight. Really makes you wonder who is who in our Muslim community. How did that organization(MEMRI) get that material and publish it ?

That being said, it would help if MCC East Bay did not delete the video. Because, on the one hand, Dr. Ataie is saying:

“The article by memri is an inaccurate hit piece written by a Zionist organization.”

While also stating:

“I made several ill-advised off-the-cuff comments during a random Q &A…”

“It was not wise to make those comments and cause confusion.”

We really, really wish Dr. Ataie wouldn’t have made that statement: “is an inaccurate hit piece.” The rest of his statement is absolutely fine.

However, by making that comment, Muslims are now going to wonder why the original video was deleted and if it would be made public and this has the potential to lend credibility to that cursed organization (Memri). That is if nothing was taken out of context.

Dr. Abdullah Bin Hamid Ali, who meant well by defending his friend, most likely triggered more people by tweeting a flurry of controversial tweets.

Views should be weighed by the evidence and the arguments.

That being said, we do not think that Dr. Abdullah, Dr. Ataie or anyone for that matter should be castigated for having views that others find that go against mainstream scientific convictions.

Naturally, some Muslims chimed in and rightfully mentioned that much of this could have been clarified from the first post.

The problem with this clarification is that it comes down to a situation of damned if you do and damned if you do not. So, because Dr. Ataie brought up the free masons, some flat Earthers who support Dr. Ataie (based upon their presumptions of his own views) are now going to think that Dr. Ataie is caving in to pressure from such groups. They fail to realize that Dr. Ataie was simply sharing their perspective without necessarily endorsing it.

People, it is not easy to be in the public eye.

Our sincere advice to Muslim speakers. Whoever is recording such public events should give full disclosure to the one being recorded and be completely transparent with them on how and where the contents are to be released.

Conclusion: Dr. Ali Ataie has not retracted or recanted anything. To recant or retract would be to state something and then change positions. He never claimed he was a flat earther. He has simply clarified in no uncertain terms. He is not a flat earther.

As regards those Muslims who associate with and support Zionist and Zionist supporters.

May Allah guide you! May Allah (swt) free Palestine and either guide or crush the oppressors! Amin

May Allah Guide the Ummah.

May Allah Forgive the Ummah.

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