Tag Archives: impailment

A Christian Dilemma & How might Jesus have died?


“And so, for the breaking of their pledge, and their refusal to acknowledge Allah’s signs, and their slaying of prophets against all right, and their boast, “Our hearts are already full of knowledge”- not so, but Allah has sealed their hearts as a result of their denial of the truth, and now they believe in but few things.(Qur’an 4:155)

﷽ 

“And because of their disbelief and of their speaking against Mary a terrible slander.”

“And for their saying: “We have killed the Messiah Jesus the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah!” They did not kill him, nor did they impale him, but it appeared to them so. Those who dispute are in doubt of him, they have no knowledge except to follow conjecture; they certainly did not kill him.”

“Rather, Allah exalted him in his presence. Allah is Almighty, the Wise.” (Qur’an 4:155-158)

It is important to understand that the whole context of these verses is in reference to Jews. The Qur’an asserts they, their and them all in reference to Jews. There is absolutely no reference to Romans.

The Qur’an asserts that the Jews mocked Jesus, ‘We have killed the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary the messenger of Allah!’

This is similar to the mocking recorded here:


“And they said, Prophecy to us, Messiah. Who hit you?” (Matthew 26:68)

As well as:

“In the same way the chief kohen and the teachers of the law mocked him among themselves. “He saved others,” they said, “But he can’t save himself. Let this Messiah, this King of Israel, come down from the cross, that we may see and believe.” (Mark 15:31-32)

It is important to note that the Qur’an in the above passages does not categorically deny the death of Christ Jesus. The Qur’an refutes that Jews were responsible for it.

They did not kill him” (It means in any way conceivable)

This statement is also asserted here:

“And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) you when you did show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: ‘This is nothing but evident magic.'” (Qur’an 5:110)

Qur’an 4:157 is not a reference to the supposed “Crucifixion” either in support or denial. The Qur’an simply does not mention the event known as the ‘Crucifixion’. The Qur’an is simply ambivalent about it.

Also of importance to note is that the Qur’an 4:157 does not interact with the supposed historical event called the “Crucifixion”. There is no mention of the Romans anywhere in the Qur’an 4:157. It does not even interact with Christian historical beliefs at all!

The only place that Allah (swt) mentions Romans is the following text:

“The Romans have been defeated.” (Qur’an 30:2)

Some people just see Romans where there are no Romans!

Is Qur’an 4:157 an Anti-Semitic Anti-Jewish Text of the Qur’an?

First, the Qur’an cannot be anti-Semitic, because the Arabs themselves are a Semitic people.

Allah informs us in regard to the children of Israel:

“Yet they are not all alike: there are some among the People of the Book who are upright, who recite Allah’s revelations throughout the night, prostrating.” (Qur’an 3:113)

As regards to the clam of Qur’an 4:157 let’s examine the text closely

This is important because most Muslims see Qur’an 4:157 as relating to the so-called “Crucifixion”. They also somehow see Romans in the text! Those Muslims make Jews culpable in the death of Jesus.

Because they somehow, for some ungodly reason, think that the text has to do with Romans crucifying Jesus, they have to make sense of the following:

BUT IT APPEARED TO THEM SO.

It is important that the following views all posit cross, crucifixion and Roman involvement in Qur’an 4:157.

View one: Mistaken identity. Allah made someone look like Jesus, and presumably he was killed. Jews are still culpable. They just got the wrong guy. Jews kill “stealth” Jesus.

Second view: Swoon theory. Jews attempted murder via Roman proxy. Jesus was crucified but, he was not crucified to death.

Third view: The Jews didn’t kill Jesus the Romans did! Jews are culpable though, as they hand Jesus over to Roman authorities. The Jews, via Roman proxy, did indeed kill Jesus’ body but not his soul. People like Todd Lawson hold this view.

Prima-Qur’an comments:


Notice that “but it appeared to them so” is in reference to the double denial. Whereas the three views above connect it only to “they did not (ṣalabūhu) him”.

However, the “but it appeared to them so” is in reference to any and all accusations. It is obvious that all the accusations cannot be synchronous, unless it is to be interpreted as a denial of a death (like stoning) and a post-mortem event (like impaling). Which means that(salabuhu) is not a death act.

Please see our article under the discussion of Qur’an 5:33

The three above views believe somehow there was only one particular event and the people were contemporaneous to said event.

Jews did not kill Jesus at all. They are not culpable, they did not kill the body and they did not use the Romans as proxies. The Qur’an does not affirm any of this.

Anti-Semitic. Anti-Jewish Text of the New Testament?

Note this statement by Paul:

“For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone.” Source: (1 Thessalonians 2:14-15)  

This one statement, ‘The Jews who killed the Lord Jesus’, has been the bedrock of Christian hatred of Jews for centuries. They were called ‘Christ Killers’ and guilty of committing deicide. Upon this statement, Jews were put in ghettos.

The Protestant Reformer Martin Luther wrote a book: “The Jews and their Lies.”

Some of Martin Luther’s comments were:

That the Jews were: “venomous beasts, vipers, disgusting scum, canders, devils incarnate.”

He also stated: “Their private houses must be destroyed and devastated, they could be lodged in stables. Let the magistrates burn their synagogues and let whatever escapes be covered with sand and mud. Let them be forced to work, and if this avails nothing, we will be compelled to expel them like dogs in order not to expose ourselves to incurring divine wrath and eternal damnation from the Jews and their lies.”

At one point he wrote: “...we are at fault in not slaying them...”

There can be no doubt that such sentiment was influential among Christians who did what they did to Jews during World War 2.

Prior to that, history tells us that:

“On 31 March 1492,Ferdinand 2 of Aragon and Isabella I of Castile, the rulers of Spain in 1492, declared that all Jews in their territories should either convert to Christianity or leave the country.”

It is very important that we give you just an overview of why the Qur’an clears Jews of this false charge; as well as the theological, social and political impact that such a belief had among Christians towards Jews.

The Qur’an refutes the idea that Jews did either of two things:

They did not kill him, nor did they impale him.”

They did not kill him: (Which is a very general meaning. They did not kill him at all)

Nor did they impale (ṣalabūhu) him.

The Qur’an is interacting with information in circulation among Jews concerning any notion they had about him killing him or playing a part in him being impaled in reference to the idea circulating from oral traditions that Jesus was stoned to death and his body was impaled.

One such report in circulation could be:

Other writings assert that Jesus was killed AND THAN displayed in a tree.

“The mishna teaches that a crier goes out before the condemned man. This indicates that it is only before him, i.e., while he is being led to his execution, that yes, the crier goes out, but from the outset, before the accused is convicted, he does not go out. The Gemara raises a difficulty: But isn’t it taught in a baraita: On Passover Eve they hung the corpse of Jesus the Nazarene after they killed him by way of stoning. And a crier went out before him for forty days, publicly proclaiming: Jesus the Nazarene is going out to be stoned because he practiced sorcery, incited people to idol worship, and led the Jewish people astray. Anyone who knows of a reason to acquit him should come forward and teach it on his behalf. And the court did not find a reason to acquit him, and so they stoned him and hung his corpse on Passover eve.”

Source: [ https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.43a ]


This is, of course, from the Jewish rabbinical literature. It asserts that Jesus was stoned to death for sorcery, idol worship and leading the Jewish people astray — all charges of which Allah clears Christ Jesus from.

By the way, the above text is taken from the Jewish Sanhedrin. Many times we have noted that Christian apologists will cut the passage up and not mention anything about stoning. Some people can be very slippery.

Remember that according to the Gospel of John, Jews say to Pilate:

“Pilate said, “Take him yourselves and judge him by your own law.” “But we have no right to execute anyone,” they objected.” (John 18:31)

However, this itself is flatly contradicted by the following:

“Then they suborned men, which said, We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses, and against God. And they stirred up the people, and the elders, and the scribes, and came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council.” (Acts 6:11-12)

” The Jews and religious leaders listened to Stephen. Then they became angry and began to grind their teeth at him. He was filled with the Holy Spirit. As he looked up to heaven, he saw the shining-greatness of God and Jesus standing at the right side of God. He said, “See! I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right side of God!” They cried out with loud voices. They put their hands over their ears and they all pushed on him. Then they took him out of the city and threw stones at him. The men who were throwing the stones laid their coats down in front of a young man named Saul. While they threw stones at Stephen, he prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” After that he fell on his knees and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” When he had said this, he died.” (Acts 7:54-60)

In fact, several times the Gospel accounts tell us that Jews tried to stone Jesus.

“At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.” (John 8:59)

“Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him..” (John 10:31)

Those Jews certainly don’t sound like people who would say, ” But we have no right to execute anyone, “


“And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree.” (Acts 10:39)

Jesus was put to death first and than hanged on a tree.

“The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you slew and hanged on a tree.” (Acts 5:30)

Jesus was put to death first and then hanged on a tree.

By the way, some translations see the problem with the above text, and they cover this up by saying: “Hung him on the tree and killed him.” or ‘Killed him by hanging him on the tree.”

Again very slippery.

“Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, cursed is everyone that hangs on a TREE.” (Galatians 3:13)

(This is the text that will eventually come back to haunt the Christians.)

Note: The above-mentioned verse is found here:

“If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not listen to them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out to the elders of his city, and to the gate of his place; And they will say to the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city should stone him with stones, that he will die: so that you put evil away from among you; and all Israel will hear, and fear.”


“If a man guilty of a sin worthy of death, and is put to death AND his corpse hung on a tree, it shall not remain on the tree overnight. You shall bury it the same day, otherwise, since God’s curse rest on him who hangs on a tree, you will defile the land which the Lord, your God is giving you as an inheritance.” (Deuteronomy 21:18-23)

The Hebrew root ת.ל.ה/י can mean hang. But in the context of corpses, it means “impale,” and thus עץ here means not “tree” or “gallows” but “stake.”

You will notice this as well when you look at disparate translations of the text.

Hung on a tree‘ or ‘impaled on a tree.’

In any case, the hanging or impaling was not the means used to execute the criminal; he was first put to death by the ordinary means, stoning, and his corpse was then exposed on high as a salutary warning for others.” Source: (New American Bible pg. 180 commentary on Deuteronomy 21)

So what is the objective of Qur’an 4:157-158 ?

a) It repudiates the claims of those Jews who claimed that they killed him in any way shape or form. In this case, the ‘they didn’t kill him’ would be a reference to stoning.

b) It repudiates the claims of those Jews who claimed the impailed Jesus. The text clearly mentions salabu-impailed. Jesus died by being impailed. The text of Qur’an 4:157 is a reference to what Jews claimed about Jesus.

c) In connection to this, it repudiates the claim that Jesus became a curse or accursed. (Deuteronomy 21:18-23)

All of this can be seen by the following:

Rather, Allah exalted him in his presence. Allah is Almighty, the Wise.” Source: (Qur’an 4:158)

Whereas the New Testament claims:

Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, cursed is everyone that hangs on a TREE.” (Galatians 3:13)

Question? Did Jesus commit a sin worthy of death?

“And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be put to death, and you hang him on a TREE: his body shall not remain all night upon the TREE, but you shall in any wise bury him that day; that thy land be not defiled, which the Lord thy God gives thee for an inheritance.” (Deuteronomy 21:22-23)

If the answer is yes, then Jesus is not an unblemished sacrifice!
If the answer is no, then Jesus is obviously not accursed as he is not guilty of sin and thus never lifted anyone from any law! Allah obviously knows who is guilty and who is not.

Merely being displayed in the tree does not mean one is accursed. You have to have committed a sin worthy of death.

Paul said above in Galatians 3:13 that Jesus became a curse for us.

“Therefore, I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.” (1 Corinthians 12:3)

If no one speaking ‘by the Spirit of God’ calls Jesus accursed, we wonder what spirit motivated Paul to make such a statement?

Accursed has reference to the state of one’s heart. This is not something to attribute to a messenger of Allah.

“When you do read the Qur’an, seek Allah’s protection from Satan the l-rajimi.” (Qur’an 16:98)

l-rajimi means the rejected, accursed or stoned. This verse is also a rejection of the claims of Christians that Jesus became a curse, or those Jews who claim that Jesus was stoned, or the overall claim by those who never accepted him as being rejected.

Satan is the raijim not Jesus!

All three claims in one are refuted.

This is why Christians believe that Jesus said:

“And about the ninth hour, Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?” (Matthew 27:46)

The Qur’an also repudiates the claim that Jesus was ever forsaken by Allah. Both before, during, and after the death of Jesus.

BEFORE HIS DEATH

“Behold,” the angels told Mary, “Allah has given you the glad news of the coming birth of a son whom He calls His Word, whose name will be Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, who will be a man of honor in this life and the life to come, and who will be one of the ones nearest to Allah.” (Qur’an 3:45)

Can it be argued that there ever was a time in which Jesus was not ‘near to Allah‘?

During his death. If we assume the Roman imperium impaled Jesus, the following could have been revealed to him as reassurance and solace:

“Allah said, O Jesus, I shall cause you to die and will exalt you in my presence and shall purify you of the ungrateful disbelieving people, and shall place those who follow you above those who deny the truth, until the Day of Judgement; then to Me shall all return and I will judge between you regarding your disputes.” (Qur’an 3:55)

This is also what is meant by:

“The Day when Allah will say, “O Jesus, Son of Mary, remember My favor upon you and upon your mother when I supported you with the Holy Spirit.” (Qur’an 5:110)


This is why we know that if Jesus actually cried out while being impaled, it is an acknowledgment of him willing to die in holy armed struggle against the Roman imperium.

“And at the ninth hour, Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Ali, lemana, shabakthani! Which means, My God, my God, for this is my purpose! “

Source: (Mark 15: 34 George M Lamsa translation)

AFTER HIS DEATH

“Rather, Allah exalted him in his presence. Allah is Almighty, the Wise.” (Qur’an 4:158)

” And how I prevented the children of Israel from harming you when you came to them with all evidence of the truth.” (Qur’an 5:116)

“I did not say anything to them except what you commanded me with: That worship Allah, my Lord, and your Lord.” (Qur’an 5:116)

THE CHRISTIAN DILEMA. REVISITING GALATIANS 3:13

Temporal Mismatch (Ante-mortem vs. Post-mortem)

Deuteronomy 21:22-23 explicitly describes a two-step process:

  1. The man is put to death (executed by legal means, typically stoning).
  2. Then his corpse is hung on a tree.

The hanging is not the means of execution. It is an additional act of post-mortem shaming.

In Roman crucifixion (or impalement), the person dies on the tree. The tree/cross is the instrument of death, not a display after death. Paul applies “cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree” to a living person dying on the tree. That is a category error according to the original legal context.

The Curse Attaches to a Convicted Criminal, Not the Method Alone

Deuteronomy 21:22 says the man was put to death for a capital offense — a sin worthy of death. The curse is not magical or mechanical. It is juridical: God’s law says a executed criminal’s displayed corpse brings a defilement if left overnight.

Paul, however, treats the phrase “cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree” as if hanging itself imparts a curse, regardless of the person’s innocence or guilt. He then claims Jesus became that curse for us, even though Jesus was (in Christian belief) innocent.

But the Torah text assumes guilt. An innocent person would never be executed, let alone hung. So Paul inverts the logic: an innocent person takes on a curse meant for the guilty by undergoing a death resembling the post-mortem display.

This is massively devastating to Christianity.

The Qur’anic Critique.

The Qur’an implicitly rejects this entire move in *Q 4:157-158* by:

  • Denying Jewish claims to have killed or impaled Jesus.
  • Affirming God exalted Jesus to Himself — no curse, no humiliation.
  • Rejecting the idea that any prophet of God could be in a state of divine curse or abandonment.

From a Qur’anic perspective, Paul’s error is not exegetical sloppiness but theological overreach — applying a law about executed criminals to an innocent messenger of Allah, and then turning that into a doctrine of vicarious atonement.

The writer of Galatians misapplies Deuteronomy 21:22-23 by:

  1. Ignoring the post-mortem context and treating it as ante-mortem.
  2. Ignoring the requirement of a prior capital crime.
  3. Using the verse to claim Jesus became a “curse” — something the Qur’an explicitly denies.

The Dilemma Restated

Premise 1 (from Torah, Deuteronomy 21:22-23):
The “curse of God” applies only to a person who has committed a sin worthy of death, who is executed, and whose corpse is then displayed on a tree.

Premise 2 (from Christian theology):
Jesus died by hanging on a tree (cross), and Galatians 3:13 says he became a curse for us.

Question: Did Jesus commit a sin worthy of death?


A: Yes, Jesus committed a sin worthy of death.

  • If yes, then:
    • Jesus was a legitimate criminal under Torah law.
    • He was not innocent.
    • He cannot be an “unblemished” or sinless sacrifice (contradicting 1 Peter 1:19, Hebrews 9:14).
    • His death was his own just punishment, not a vicarious atonement for others.
    • Christianity collapses because the entire sacrificial logic requires a sinless victim.

Conclusion: Christianity is false.


B: No, Jesus did not commit any sin worthy of death.

  • If no, then:
    • Deuteronomy 21:22-23 does not apply to him.
    • The “curse” in that verse has no legal or theological standing over an innocent person.
    • Paul’s application of the curse to Jesus in Galatians 3:13 is invalid — he is quoting a verse that has nothing to do with an innocent man.
    • Jesus did not “become a curse” for anyone.
    • He therefore did not redeem anyone from the curse of the law, because there is no mechanism by which an innocent person’s undeserved death transfers to the guilty under Torah.

Conclusion: Paul made an exegetical and theological error. Jesus remains innocent, but Pauline atonement theology is unfounded.


Why This Dilemma Is Fatal to Pauline Christianity?

Christian theology wants both:

  1. Jesus is absolutely sinless (no sin worthy of death).
  2. Jesus became a curse for us (Galatians 3:13 quoting Deuteronomy 21).

But the Torah text does not allow an innocent person to be “cursed” in that juridical sense. The curse is not magical or transferable — it is a legal declaration attached to a guilty, executed criminal’s corpse.

Paul’s move is to sever the curse from guilt and reattach it to the method of death alone. That is not exegesis; it is creative theology. But it violates the plain meaning of the Hebrew text.


The Qur’anic Resolution

The Qur’an simply rejects the premise that Jesus was ever in a state of curse or humiliation before God:

“Rather, Allah exalted him in His presence. Allah is Almighty, the Wise.” (Qur’an 4:158)

And:

“They did not kill him, nor did they impale him, but it appeared to them so.” (Qur’an 4:157)

From the Qur’anic perspective:

  • Jesus committed no sin.
  • He was not accursed.
  • He was not abandoned by God (contra Matthew 27:46).
  • Therefore, Galatians 3:13 is a false attribution to God’s law.
  • Allah knows who is guilty and who is innocent. An innocent man does not become cursed, and no prophet is made a curse for others.

Possible Christian Responses (And Why They Fail)

Christian ResponseWhy It Fails
“Jesus became a curse representatively, not because he was guilty.”Deuteronomy 21 does not recognize representative curse. The curse is on the actual criminal.
“The curse is on the manner of death, not the person’s sin.”The text says “cursed by God is everyone who hangs” — but that “everyone” is already defined as an executed criminal. You cannot separate the curse from guilt.
“Paul is doing midrash, not literal exegesis.”Then it is not a proof text. If you abandon literal meaning, you abandon legal force.
“Jesus bore the curse for us as a substitution.”Substitution requires the substitute to be legally eligible to bear the curse. Torah never allows an innocent substitute to be cursed in place of the guilty.

None of these responses resolve the core logical contradiction we have identified.

THE LESSON FOR MUSLIMS IN THE DEATH OF JESUS AS A MARTYR.

This is based on speculation.

It is likely that Jesus died as a martyr in an armed struggle against the authority of the Roman imperium.

And never think of those who have been killed in the cause of Allah as dead. Rather, they are alive with their Lord, receiving provision, Rejoicing in what Allah has bestowed upon them of His bounty, and they receive good tidings about those after them who have not yet joined them – that there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve.” (Qur’an 3:169-170)

Allow me to share with you a very interesting text from the Qur’an.

The Injil or Gospel is mentioned 12 times in 12 verses of the Qur’an. In one of those verses we have the following:

“Indeed, Allah has purchased from the believers their lives and their properties [in exchange] for that they will have Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allah, so they kill and are killed. [It is] a true promise [binding] upon Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur’an. And who is truer to his covenant than Allah? So rejoice in your transaction which you have contracted. And it is that which is the great attainment.” (Qur’an 9:111)

Prima Qur’an Comment: Out of all the teachings that Allah could inform us about concerning what Jesus taught in the Injil, why did Allah mention the teaching concerning martyrdom? Why would Jesus teach about ‘killing and being killed’ if he was simply a pacifist?

“Do not be afraid of those who kill the body, but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” (Matthew 10:28)

“I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more.” (Luke 12:4)

This is exactly what Allah [swt] would have revealed to Jesus if indeed the Romans impaled Christ Jesus.

“Allah said, O Jesus, I shall cause you to die and will exalt you in my presence and shall purify you of the ungrateful disbelieving people, and shall place those who follow you above those who deny the truth, until the Day of Judgement; then to Me shall all return and I will judge between you regarding your disputes.” (Qur’an 3:55)

Jesus received good tidings about those that would come after him and have not joined him yet. While the people were perceiving that Jesus had a horrible ending, the death of Jesus was a tranquil experience, and Jesus was told that he would be cleared of the falsehoods said concerning him.

It is Allah Who takes away the souls at the time of their death, and those that die not during their sleep. He keeps those for which He has ordained death and sends the rest for a term appointed. Verily, in this are signs for a people who think deeply” (Qur’an 39:42)

“And do not say about those who are killed in the way of Allah, “They are dead.” Rather, they are alive, but you perceive [it] not.(Qur’an 2:154)

“Indeed, Allah has purchased from the believers their lives and their properties in exchange for that they will have Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allah, so they kill and are killed. It is a true promise binding upon Him in the Torah and the GOSPEL and the Qur’an. And who is truer to his covenant than Allah? So rejoice in your transaction which you have contracted. And it is that which is the great attainment.” (Qur’an 9:111)

Look at this astonishing verse above. That the idea of fighting in the cause of Allah [swt] killing and being killed is established in the Qur’an, the Torah and the GOSPEL.

Rather than Christ Jesus being seen as some theological projection onto Judaism, a very different picture emerges. We have a Christ Jesus who was a Jewish prophet, a Muslim, a Messenger of Allah [swt], and a figure ultimately wanted dead by the Roman authorities.

Instead, what emerges is a picture of a Messenger of Allah [swt] who was defiant to the very end. He challenged the religious authorities of his time and challenged the government of his time, ultimately leading to his trial and his death. In the face of this death, Jesus became triumphant and became a symbol of martyrdom.


Jesus had spent most of his life calling the children of Israel to Allah and correcting the learned on points where they were in error. Jesus’ teachings on martyrdom were a threat to the Roman government. Jesus and a group of pious Jews who were sick and tired of the Roman Imperium most likely led a violent revolt against the Romans. Jesus and some of his people were charged with sedition and impailed.

Jesus didn’t die with relative dignity hanging from the cross. He died, suspended on one single stake penetrating his body: he was impaled. There were no nails in his hands or feet. He did not die on a cross-shaped execution tool († or T). Just a sharp stake shoved right into his body upon which he was suspended – that is the most logical and plausible form of execution of Jesus by far…

Furthermore, one of the alleged witnesses, St. Mark, tells us that at the most critical juncture in the life of Jesus — “All his disciples forsook him and fled“- (Mark 14:50).

The Roman spectacle of impalement was meant to be as savage and tortuously cruel as possible because it had to accomplish two things.

  1. To act as a visual deterrent to crime and, in the case of Jesus — uprising against an oppressive regime.
  2. To provide a theater of gore to satisfy the bloodlust of those who came to watch. The spike was the centerpiece of this typically gruesome Roman conception. That is why they didn’t just kill Jesus with a sword and be done with it.


Most likely the Romans introduced the tip of the spike into the victim’s back side and continued hammering it, pushing it far enough to where it passed under the pelvic bone so it would support the body on the impale.

The two thieves, if they were real, (most likely really guilty of sedition), get the same treatment. When the impale device was upright, it kept the victim’s body from being torn loose by his own weight and sliding off. That was its practical use.


But there was also a kind of diabolical sideshow, something to further attract the viewer interest in the impalement process. With the spike thrust under the pelvic bone, but not yet coming out of the body, a man could use the leverage of his arms and his legs to project his body outward, curving it away from the impale and thus preventing the spike from penetrating any further up into the bowels. But as one’s arms gave out, one’s body would slowly sink down on the spike, causing the spike to penetrate further along through one’s maze of intestines.

Eventually, after the leg strength also gave out, all leverage was lost and the body, of its own weight, would slump/slide back against the vertical beam, driving the spike slightly upwards through the body’s maze of vital organs until it pierced the stomach lining from the inside out, spewing blood and guts all over the ground.

Mercifully, death usually followed in a short time thereafter. When it came to devising fiendish methods of torture and death, the Romans were absolutely without equal. They left no sadistic, bloodthirsty detail behind.

It is also reasonable that Jesus hastened his own death by forcing his body down on the spike, an extremely awesome and heroic achievement! It indicates that Jesus had no fear of death. We imagine Jesus looking on at the Romans, with a certain look in his eye as if to say, “Go ahead, make my day!” Whereas the two thieves, if they were real, (most likely rebels) used all their strength to cling to life as long as possible. Hence, the breaking of the legs!

During his death: When the Romans impaled Jesus, it is possible the following was revealed to him as reassurance:

“Allah said, O Jesus, I shall cause you to die and will exalt you in my presence and shall purify you of the ungrateful disbelieving people, and shall place those who follow you above those who deny the truth, until the Day of Judgement; then to Me shall all return and I will judge between you regarding your disputes.” (Qur’an 3:55)

This is also what is meant by:

“The Day when Allah will say, “O Jesus, Son of Mary, remember My favor upon you and upon your mother when I supported you with the Holy Spirit.” (Qur’an 5:110)

WHAT HAPPENS TO THE BODY OF JESUS?

This would be an obvious question from Christian. One that they may find suspect.

The Christian version:

“Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli.” (Luke 3:23)

We are told that God incarnate was on the earth for 30-something years, not really doing much of anything. Only 3 years of his life were truly important. He died on the double cross, rose from the dead and ascended bodily up into heaven.

A possible Muslim version

During the impalement, Allah (swt)took the soul of Jesus, leaving behind his body, as he does with everyone else. His body was either given over to his followers or they stole it at night for a more proper burial.

“While the women were on their way, some of the guards went into the city and reported to the chief priests everything that had happened. When the chief priests had met with the elders and devised a plan, they gave the soldiers a large sum of money, telling them, “You are to say, ‘His disciples came during the night and stole him away while we were asleep.’ If this report gets to the governor, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble.” So the soldiers took the money and did as they were instructed. And this story has been widely circulated among the Jews to this very day.” (Matthew 28:11-15)

Even though we have not even a shred of evidence outside the New Testament accounts that this was a Jewish polemic directed towards Christianity, we believe it to be plausible. Namely, the disciples took the corpse of Jesus and buried it in a place they found suitable.

The life of Jesus can be likened to a 3-hour Blu-ray in which, in the Christian version, the first 2 hours and 30 minutes are missing (30 years) and in the Islamic version [that we find plausible] the last 15 minutes are missing (last few days).

Whatwe mean by this is that the last 15 minutes are so important to Christian theology that they are obviously not going to be agreeable to what we believe.

Muslims don’t have to lose any sleep over where the bodies of prophets are buried. In the end Allah (swt) knows best.

For reasons why we do not find the supposed crucifixion historical kindly see our article here:

“The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) had already passed away before him. And his mother was a saintly woman. And they both used to eat (earthly) food. See how We make the revelations clear for them, and see how they are turned away!” (Qur’an 5:75)

“And when they hear what has been revealed to the Messenger, you see their eyes overflowing with tears because of what they have recognized of the truth. They say, “Our Lord, we have believed, so register us among the witnesses.” (Qur’an 5:83)

May Allah (swt) Guide the Ummah.

May Allah (swt) Forgive the Ummah.

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Jesus was not crucified: the evidence with Dr. Ali Ataie

“And for their saying, “Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.” And they did not kill him nor did they impale (ṣalabūhu) him; (وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ وَمَا صَلَبُوهُ وَلَٰكِنْ شُبِّهَ لَهُمْ)but it was made to appear to them so. Those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no certain knowledge of it, but only follow conjecture. For certainly, they did not kill him.”  (Qur’an 4:157)

﷽ 

These are some of our thoughts after an attentive listen of all 3 hours 36 minutes and 33 seconds on the Blogging Theology video entitled: ‘Jesus was not crucified: the evidence with Dr. Ali Ataie.’

You may see this here:

Paul Williams and Blogging Theology are still our number one favourite youtube channel.W

e also feel (for our interest) the most relevant in the English language.

Our thoughts are that Dr. Ali Ataie is almost there. The stand out from this, the absolutely commendable point is that Dr. Ataie is challenging what is considered to be a historical ‘fact,’ namely that Jesus of Nazareth was Crucified to death by the Roman Imperium.

That in and of itself is refreshing. We have been saying this for years. After looking at the so called “evidence” both biblical and extra biblical we haven’t found it convincing at all.

As we have pointed out in a previous article here: how does anyone read Qur’an 4:157 and walk away with the understanding that it is talking about Romans, Crucifixion or Cross at all?

It is simply bizarre to us.

Dr. Ataie has a good opening preface that when it comes to issues like resurrection, and other miracles those are simply things that history cannot attest to. There could be a natural and supra natural explanation. Miracles are not considered by modern historians when looking at the past. That being said miracles are not unhistorical it’s just that being in the realm of the supranatural historians do not consider it.

This is a very fair and reasonable point raised by Dr. Ataie.

Again another reason why Muslims should not be too excitable over claims by historians and /or orientalist. At the heart of research are simply different epistemology.


Paul Of Tarsus conversion story for example, is non historical.

“I trust Allah and his Messenger.”-Dr. Ataie

We can only say that: “Ditto.”


@17:55 “If that man said that Jesus wasn’t crucified then I believe him. And I don’t care what Bart Ehrman…..”-Dr. Ataie

Prima Qur’an comments: You see dear reader for some reason Dr.Ataie, Dr. Shabir Ally, Dr. Fatoohi, all think the Qur’an is engaging with something called “crucifixion”

The Qur’an is neither affirming nor denying any crucifixion. The Qur’an is interacting with claims made by Jews about Jesus (as).

As regard to an event that is commonly called ‘The Crucifixion’ the Qur’an is simply indifferent. It simpy neither denies nor affirms it.

Please see:

@19:34 Why in the world did he (Muhammed) deny the crucifixion of Jesus? -Dr. Ataie

Prima Qur’an comments: Again we have read the same Qur’an Dr. Ataie is reading and we simply do not see crucifixion any where in the Qur’an at all.

“The historical case for the crucifixion is not nearly as strong as what we have been lead to believe.” -Dr. Ataie.


@22:36 “It is axiomatic for Westerns that it has happened.”

@24:09 Dr. Ataie goes into the various theories Muslims have in regards to the “crucifixion” of Jesus.

Dr. Ataie is closet to the truth out of them all (Has he been reading Prima-Qur’an?).

@30:17 Dr. Ali Ataie comments that “Crucified victims were left on their crosses long after they expired.”

Dr. Ali Ataie still struggles with Divine Rapture Theory. As he does not find it to be in agreement with the Qur’an and/or historically plausible.


@32:26 Dr. Ali Ataie addresses the issue of Supranatural identity transference.
@32:50 Dr. Ali says that most Muslim exegetes go with this idea that “Jesus was no where near a cross.”

A common trope that we hear from some atheist is that secular historians are objective, unbiased and inductive.

@34:12 objective, unbiased, inductive. -Historians?

Dr. Ataie does an excellent job of going into an analysis of this. How historians have come up with different perspectives and have contradicted each other and how they may not be as objective or unbiased or even as inductive as they may lead themselves to believe.

Dr. Ataie, We owe you lunch! Well said. May Allah (swt) elevate him.

@40:28 Dr. Ataie states: “But I do believe that myth and legend has probably soo permeated the gospel accounts of Jesus passion narratives that it is not at all beyond reason to dismiss them completely as historical fiction!”

Prima-Qur’an comments: Allahu Akbar! There you go Dr. Ataie now that is the ticket!
Than the idea that someone was “crucified” is likely based upon what? Myth and legend.

Dr. Ataie gets into his understanding of: Qur’an 4:157 “It was made to appear to them so.

@53:38 “They did not have information. It did not come from a reliable source.”
@54:11 “Jews and Christians ended up following hearsay reports about some crucifixion event from non eye-witnesses….”

Prima-Qur’an comments: This is exactly what shubbiha lahum means. It is not shubi ha alayhim!

In fact because we love you the readers insh’Allah we will give you a sneak peak at one of the slides that Shaykh Hilal and those of us at Prima Qur’an have been working on.

  1. Disagreements.
  2. They are in doubt.
  3. They have no knowledge about it.
  4. They are following dhan (assumption or conjecture).

These are not things that we would describe eye witnesses to an event with.


@54:25 “When you say it was made to appear to them that it was so who is the implied actor there? Who made it appear to them it was so. Is this referencing God or some other-who is applied in that if you see what I mean?” -Paul Williams.

Prima Qur’an comments: Brother Paul asked a very great question. Very insightful. This is what was answered above. The whole event in which by the way is Allah (swt) addressing Jews and claims made by Jews is that they killed Jesus and impailed him.

This is based upon Jewish claims that were in orally in circulation in the time of the Prophet (saw).

There is absolutely nothing in Qur’an 4:157 about Romans, or about a cross or about a crucifixion which we will come to Insh’Allah

@1:00:53 “Is there any material evidence of any Jew who was ever crucified by the Romans in ancient Palestine? Apparently tens of thousands of Jews were crucified and all archeologist have ever found was a single heel bone of a man with a nail driven through it, they call him Yohanan. I don’t know how they know his name but that’s what they call him.” -Dr. Ataie.

@1:12:24Paul was the first one in recorded history to claim that Jesus was crucified.”- Dr. Ataie.

Prima-Qur’an comments: This is a genius point not because its clever but because it’s true and it is overlooked by way too many.

Paul lays down his theology in 1 Corinthians 15:3-8.

In fact, Allah-willing we will go ahead and lay out the systematic destruction of this group of text

“If the foundation is destroyed what shall the righteous do?” (Psalms 11:3)

Question: Just how important is the theology in 1 Corinthians 15:3-8?

Answer:

“Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; you are still in your sins.” (1st Corinthians 15: 12-14, and 17)

Prima Qur’an Comment: Two major points need to be deduced from the above proof text.

1) If Christ Jesus did not raise from the dead, Christianity is a fruitless endeavor in every respect. Muslims do not say that, the Bible says it.

2) If Christ Jesus is not raised from the dead, Christians are still in their sins; and the whole of Christian theology is fruitless. Muslims do not say that, the Bible does.

Note: (Paul does not try and prove his case on an emptied tomb.)

“For I determine not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.” (1st Corinthians 2:2)

Note: Paul is not interested in the historical Christ.

In fact Paul never met the historical Jesus in his lifetime! He only claims to have met Jesus in a vision in Acts 9 , 22 and 26 and each and everyone of those text if juxtaposed contradict and conflict with one another.

“If the foundation is destroyed what shall the righteous do?” (Psalms 11:3)

How sound is that first account of the crucifixion that Paul is relating to us and the whole of Christian theology is hinging on?

How sound is it? Is the foundation solid?

Analyzing the foundation of Christian theology.

(1 Corinthians 15:3-8) <<< The Foundation of Christianity is built upon this text.

“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures.” (1st Corinthians 15:3)

Prima Qur’an Comment:

Paul is referring to the Hebrew Scriptures because there were no New Testament writings at that time. However the fault in this text is that there is no place in the Hebrew scriptures that says a Messiah will die for our sins! Nowhere from Genesis to Malachi! There are allegories about other things.

“And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.” (1st Corinthians 15:4)

Prima Qur’an Comment:

Again, nowhere in the Hebrew scriptures from Genesis to Malachi does it say that a Messiah will rise from the dead on the third day!

“For as yet they knew not the scripture that he must rise again from the dead.” (John 20:9)

Prima Qur’an Comment:

Even Jesus disciples did not know any scriptures about a Messiah rising from the dead.

There is a major contradiction in this narrative as well.

A Contradiction

“And although THEY found no cause of death in him, yet desired THEY Pilate that he should be slain. And when THEY had fulfilled all that was written of him THEY took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulcher.” (Acts 13:28-29)

Note: (They the Jews who desired his death put him in the tomb, which is contradicted point blank by the Gospel of Mark.)

“And HE brought fine linen, and took him down, and wrapped him in the linen, and laid him in a sepulcher which was hewn out of a rock, and rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulcher.” (Mark 15:46)

Note: (Joseph himself put Jesus in the tomb not the Jews who desired his death as in Acts.)

Also, if they fulfilled all that was written of him there would be no “rose again the third day according to the scriptures.”

“And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the Twelve.” (Ist Corinthians 15:5)

Prima Qur’an Comment:

There the Greek word for seen is Opthe, and is used for spiritual seeing as in a vision. No where in the Bible does it say Peter had an independent sighting of Jesus n this order that Paul is giving?

Question: What does ‘opthe’ mean?

Answer: spiritual seeing a vision

Also “ appearing to the twelve” is wrong because Judas committed suicide. To say that twelve is just a terminology is not true! Jesus called them the 12 apostles and when Judas died the terminology changes to 11 until the election of Mathias in Acts 6:2!

Catholics, however, got it right. The Douay-Rheims which was diligently compared with the original Greek’ text they say 11! So Somebody’s Greek text is wrong!

Source: (The Douay-Rheims New Testament (published by Tan Books and Publishers, INC. P.O. box424 Rockford, Illinois 61105)

“After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto the present, but some are fallen asleep.” (1st Corinthians 15:6)

This is contradicted by the following text.

“This man God raised on the third day and granted that he be visible, not to all the people, but to us, the witnesses chosen by God in advance, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.” (Acts 10:40-41)

From Emmaus to Jerusalem Paul wedges in 500 people who he says saw Jesus, and then Jesus ascends up into heaven that day.

“And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.” (Luke 24:51)

This is in contrast to the following

“Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: To whom also he showed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God” (Acts 1:2-3)

The “Third Coming of Jesus”?

So if Jesus really did go up into heaven after he was raised again and then ‘beamed’ back down to hang around for 40 more days only to ‘beam’ back up this would mean that Christians are awaiting the 3rd coming of Jesus, and that just doesn’t sound too illustrious.

“After that he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.” (1st Corinthians 15:7)

Prima Qur’an Comment:

No where in the Bible does it say James had an independent sighting of Jesus in this order Paul is projecting. The Epistle of James has no account of a risen lord. What an encounter to leave out!

Again when all the apostles are mentioned are there 11 or 12? Which Greek text?

“And, last of all, he was seen of me also, as one born out of due time.” (1st Corinthians 15:8)

Prima Qur’an Comment:

Finally, Paul insert himself in the picture!

Note: Paul has been using that same word seen in Greek (OPTHE) all the way through to apply to all the apostles. Paul did not have a physical encounter with Jesus.

Paul also believes that the disciples did not have a physical encounter with Jesus as he uses the Greek word Opthe-seen all the way through 1 Corinthians 15:3-8.

Paul’s First account is thus discredited and the ‘foundation has been destroyed’.

We can stop right here and disregard everything else since the source of this crucifixion business is found to be incredible. However, we will pursue this in hopes that some people who did not grasp the argumentation above will find other evidence, Insha’Allah, conclusive.

Our apologies dear reader for the detour; we will continue with Dr. Ataie’s presentation.

Dr. Ataie continues also building his case upon what Paul has presented.

Namely that Paul says:

 I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin.  I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.” (Galatians 1:11)

The isnaad-the chain of transmission of the Christian account of the crucifixion it begins with Paul.

@1:30:34 Dr. Ataie is quoting a statement of Bart Ehrman which is “Who would make up a crucified Messiah?”

Dr. Ali Ataie makes some good points butwe are not sold on the idea of the Jews expecting a Crucified Messiah. We do believe that the gospels are literary fiction to create a counter-Jesus narrative.

Also, important to note that the Qur’an no where states that no one killed Jesus. There is however, a specific text addressed to a group of Jews who claimed to have either killed or impailed Jesus.

Allow us to share with you a very interesting text from the Qur’an.

The Injil or Gospel is mentioned 12 times in 12 verses of the Qur’an. In one of those verses we have the following:

Indeed, Allah has purchased from the believers their lives and their properties [in exchange] for that they will have  Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allah, so they kill and are killed. [It is] a true promise [binding] upon Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur’an. And who is truer to his covenant than Allah? So rejoice in your transaction which you have contracted. And it is that which is the great attainment. [Qur’an 9:111]

Qur’an Comment: Out of all the teachings that Allah could inform us about concerning what Jesus taught in the Injil, why did Allah mention the teaching concerning martyrdom? Why would Jesus teach about ‘killing and being killed’ if he was simply a pacifist?

To read more the Ibadi view please read:

https://primaquran.com/2022/10/04/what-happened-to-jesus-and-how-did-he-die/

@1:34:38 “The Qur’an says there was ikhtilaaf among the Christians?” -Dr. Ataie

Prima-Qur’an comment: Wait what??!

Can Dr. Ataie show us in the Qur’an 4:157 where there is mention of Christians? There is no mention of Christians. Allah (swt) is clearly addressing claims made by some Jews.

Dr. Ataie please be more careful in your handling of the text!

Dr. Ataie makes an interesting point that Q: The Sayings Gospel has no passion narrative or resurrection narratives.

Dr. Ataie twice during the presentation used language of obfuscation.

@2:04:09 “impailed on the cross” -Dr. Ataie

Prima-Qur’an comment: crucifixion and Impailment are suspension punishments but they are not the same thing. It is possible that Prima Qur’an is gaininig traction and that some people want to use language that obfuscates the issue.

A) Impailment is a punishment where a pike/spike or other sharpened object is shoved through the loins/lubmus region of the body. The spine is used to hoist the individual. Depending upon the technique used it is designed to be a quick death struggle after. After the hapless victim cannot use their feet or hands to keep the impale device from reaching vital organs due to exhaustion. The impale device pierces vital organs and the victim dies an excruciating death.

B) Crucifixion is a punishment where an individual is put on a patibulum which is than affixed to a crux (a pole or beam). There is no nothing driven through the spine and the spinal column is relatively left intact. This suspension punishment focuses on putting nails through the hands and feet and meant to be a prolonged death struggle. Death is usually from asphyxiations. No vital organs are pierced. In fact people could survive being crucified for days. Hence, Christians make a huge ordeal about Jesus being scourged before Crucifixion.

@2:39:11 Dr. Ataie is quoting the Sefer Toledoth Yeshu, the Aramaic version and yet quotes the following to us in English:

“The Rabbi says Jesus was executed for sorcery by stoning and then crucified his body was than removed from the cross and dragged through the streets.” -Dr. Ataie

Prima-Qur’an comment: We are very curious to know the source that Dr. Ataie is quoting from.We are very doubtful that the Aramaic words are cross and crucify just as we know that the Qur’an 4:157 does not say crucify or cross.

In fact, Jews do not crucify anyone either. But they do impail!

The Sefer Toledoth Yeshu (The Book of the History of Jesus)

You could read other versions that would describe how the Romans convicted him; how he died a charlatan’s death (hanging not even on a tree, but on a cabbage stalk); and suffered a criminal’s burial.

@2:49:21 Dr. Ali Ataie gives his version of events that he thinks happens.

Prima-Qur’an comments: Dr. Alie believes that Jesus Barabbas is crucified instead of Jesus by the Romans. A different take to the substitution theory with the key differences being that no miracles happened and no one was made to look like Jesus. Jesus miraculously ascended into heaven where it is presumed here is there even until this day.

@2:58:44 “wa lakun shuba lahum” Was made to appear to them so by the evangelist it was precisely their passion narratives that made people to think that Jesus was crucified.

“For we did not follow cleverly contrived myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ; we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.” (2 Peter 1:16)

@3:23:50 “Perhaps what Paul meant is that the Jews killed him by Crucifixion but historically and legally how would the Jews have executed Jesus? If he was found guilty of blasphemy or sorcery which is actually what the Toledoth Yeshu and Qur’an suggest the charges were. “This is evidence sorcery.” If that’s the case they would have stoned him and than crucified his body post mortem.” and thus the Qur’an says wama qataluhu wama salabuhu nor crucify him post mortem.”

Prima-Qur’an comments: Oh Dr. Ataie so close so close. If Dr. Ataie would have simply consulted Jewish legal works he would have found the answer to his question. A very good question btw.

but historically and legally how would the Jews have executed Jesus?”

Once you figure that out Dr. Ataie welcome to the Ibadi position on Qur’an 4:157. Welcome home!

It is not crucifixion it is impalement.

And for their saying, “Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.” And they did not kill him nor did they impale (ṣalabūhu) him; (وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ وَمَا صَلَبُوهُ وَلَٰكِنْ شُبِّهَ لَهُمْ)but it was made to appear to them so. Those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no certain knowledge of it, but only follow conjecture. For certainly, they did not kill him.”  (Qur’an 4:157)

  1. Notice that the context Qur’an 4:157 is speaking about Jews. There is no mention of Romans in the text. You may start at Qur’an 4:154 for context.
  2. There is a double denial. They did not kill him nor did they (ṣalabūhu) him.
  3. Why the seemingly redundant text? Is it not sufficient to say “And they did not kill him?” Surely that covers everything?
  4. Why would Allah (swt) deny that Jews “Crucified” Jesus? Especially if Allah (swt) is aware of Jewish laws?
  5. Jews do not crucify anyone nor do they put people on crosses.
  6. Jews do however impale people. So translating (ṣalabūhu) as impale makes complete sense.
  7. The phrase “but it was made to appear to them” does not indicate that this was something Allah (swt) did.

Now what happens is for some reason Muslims look at Qur’an 4:157 and they see Romans! The whole context of the text is that Allah (swt) is talking about Jews.

If Allah (swt) wanted to say Romans he certainly he could have. Yet, Qur’an 4:157 mentions nothing about the Romans.

“The Romans have been defeated.” (Qur’an 30:20)

So where than do Muslims gets Romans or Crucifixion or Cross in Qur’an 4:157 ?? 🤷

Other articles about Dr. Ataie.

May Allah Guide the Christians so that they do not burn in the hellfire.

May Allah (swt) guide us to what is beloved to Allah (swt).

May Allah Forgive the Ummah.

May Allah Guide the Ummah.

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Letter (e-mail) to Professor Todd Lawson on Qur’an 4:157

“And for their saying, “Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.” And they did not kill him nor did they impale (ṣalabūhu) him; (وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ وَمَا صَلَبُوهُ وَلَٰكِنْ شُبِّهَ لَهُمْ)but it was made to appear to them so. Those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no certain knowledge of it, but only follow conjecture. For certainly, they did not kill him.”  (Qur’an 4:157)

This is a recent e-mail sent to Todd Lawson an Emeritus Professor of Islamic thought at the University of Toronto.

For those unfamiliar. Professor Todd Lawson his cv-curriculum vitae can be found here: https://discover.research.utoronto.ca/27086-todd-lawson

I sent this inquiry as I am genuinely curious as to why he or anyone for that matter think that the Qur’an 4:157 seem to be interacting with anything that the Romans have done, or that the text is talking about a historical event known as the “Crucifixion” or that the Qur’an is denying/or affirming anything about a Cross at all.

Greetings Professor Lawson

I hope this email finds you in the best of health. 

I had read your book “The Crucifixion and the Qur’an: A Study in the HIstory of Muslim Thought.”

It was certainly an interesting read. 

You have noted how extraneous material has influenced the Sunni Tafsir tradition and popular interpretation of Qur’an 4:157. 

So to this point I am curious as to why you think the Qur’an engaged with an historical event popularly known as “The Crucifixion” at all?

The reason I ask this is because when one looks at the immediate text of the Qur’an 4:157 there does not seem to be any mention of Romans or Roman involvement at all.

I am deeply interested why your good self or anyone would feel that the Qur’an 4:157 engages with an historical event popularly known as “The Crucifixion” at all. I believe that a reading of the text without extraneous material tells us that the text is interacting with certain Jews who were making certain claims about Jesus. 

When we read Qur’an 4:155 for example:

“They have incurred Allah’s wrath for their breaking the covenant, and their rejection of the signs of Allah and for slaying Prophets without right, and for saying: ‘Our hearts are wrapped up in covers-even though in fact Allah has sealed their hearts because of their unbelief, so that they scarcely believe.” 

I believe we both concur that it would seem out of place for that text to address the Romans of the time of Jesus.

Furthermore the Qur’an 4:157 has a double denial in the text. They did not kill him nor did they (salabu). The initial denial is general and it can easily accommodate any understanding of a possible demise of Jesus. 

It is immensely curious to follow up a general denial that can accommodate any particular understanding of any possible demise of Jesus with a particular denial immediately after. 

Is it not more sensible in keeping with the immediate text and surrounding text to see this as the Qur’an interacting with particular claims made by Jews about Jesus?  Rather these claims are based upon any historical event, document or even oral transmissions in certain circles that the Qur’an would be familiar with?

Given that this seems to be the very obvious case, how do you propose somehow Romans, and a “Crucifixion” is posited upon the text of Qur’an 4:157?

It is peculiar because Jews do not crucify people in their law. It is not a part of the Torah nor of the Talmud of which I am sure you are aware. 

They do have laws about killing people and then impailing them. They do have assertions about those impaled being cursed by God. 

Equally curious is the idea that (salabu) would translate to a Latin Cross, or the Tau Cross. 

Given that the Qur’an in  (7:124); 20:71; & 26:49) all describe cutting off the hands and the feet and given what we know about supporting the body weight on an ecclesiastical “Cross” it is it not presumptuous of us to assume Latin Cross, Tau etc? 

The two noun forms in Qur’an 86:7 & Qur’an 4:23 which relate to the loins and the lumbus region seem to forcefully argue with a type of punishment that would involve impalement rather than anything to do with being tied to a patibulum and affixed to a crux or stake and than having nails driven in ones hands and feet.

When we look at the text of Qur’an 5:33 on page 31 of your book you state:

“the criminal was killed by a separate means before their corpse was publicly displayed on a pike or cross.”   

This does not seem to correlate to what Christians have in mind when they invoke the “Crucifixion” of Jesus. They seem to think this is a death on a cross and not a death prior to a cross. 

 I also felt that pike was more appropriate than cross given what we know about the Islamic legal schools. None of the legal schools, Ibadi, Zaydi, Zahiri, Shafi’i, Imami, Maliki, Hanafi or Hanbali make it a requirement to put someone on a patibulum and affix that patibulum to a crux or stake and than proceed to drive nails in the hands and feet.

Much more can be said. Again I believe my initial inquiry is that if we do a plain reading of Qur’an 4:157 or even invoke the immediate context where are we drawing upon the idea that this is interacting with something the Romans are said to have done to Jesus? 

Thank you for your time. 

Have a blessed weekend ahead.

If you would like to read more on this subject I invite you to read the following:

May Allah Guide the Ummah.

May Allah Forgive the Ummah.

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